225137 Bullies, 3985 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

View Poll Results: Do you think BJJ is just a fad?

Voters
1011. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    350 34.62%
  • No.

    661 65.38%
Results 411 to 420 of 894
Page 42 of 90 FirstFirst ... 323839404142 4344454652 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ooooooklahoma!!!
    Posts
    1,591

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 1:03am


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Forseti
    They have to be "sufficiently different". That is a philosophically vague term. What precisely is entailed by it is debatable. But there are nevertheless clear cut cases. Boxing is a different art than wing chun even though both of them are known for their hand techniques. Kukkiwon style TKD really is quite different from karate even though they both have kicking and punching
    Didn't you just fucking say that TKD isn't really that different from Karate, that in fact your instructor used to describe it as "korean karate?"

    I thought you were actually making some kind of sense until now, the self-contradiction is now obvious enough that even my sleep-deprived brain picks it up.
    sudo make me a sandwich!
  2. JohnnyS is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,139

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 1:06am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But why would they leave if they know they're not going to be getting the same thing?

    If we assume that BJJ is a fad, then the reasons people want to do BJJ are:
    1) They want to be like a Gracie
    2) They want to be like NHB fighters
    3) They want to learn to fight on the ground like BJJ'ers.

    The first two rule out Kodokan Judo and I don't see how spending the majority of your training time learning throws will in any way be equivalent to learning BJJ. Also, if your claims were true, why would people go from Judo to BJJ to learn groundwork if they are essentially learning the same thing as you suggest?

    Seriously, your not making sense.
  3. Forseti is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    176

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 1:07am


     Style: Wrath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyDaHedgehog
    Didn't you just fucking say that TKD isn't really that different from Karate, that in fact your instructor used to describe it as "korean karate?"

    I thought you were actually making some kind of sense until now, the self-contradiction is now obvious enough that even my sleep-deprived brain picks it up.
    Yes I did. the popularity of TKD is not based on its uniqueness. It is based on the fact that it is an olympic sport. TKD is not popular among the hardcore fight crowd -- it is popular amongst the soccer moms for completely different reasons than why most people would be considering BJJ.

    Nice try, though.

    Edit: I read your post but didn't read what you were replying to in my post. It was "Kukkiwon style TKD really is quite different from karate even though they both have kicking and punching." You are saying that at one point I said TKD and karate were the same and now I am contradicting myself. No, actually go back to where I said that they were the same and you will see a more elaborate discussion about how ITF (actually my style under the ITF back when I did it and I don't know what that was off hand) is the same as Shotokan but WTF (i.e. kukkiwon) is quite distinct.
    Last edited by Forseti; 2/16/2005 2:03am at .
  4. Forseti is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    176

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 1:21am


     Style: Wrath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NextGuard
    I would bet the average BJJ newbie

    1. If he thinks about it all, believe the BJJ came from somewhere and Judo is as good a source as any.

    2. The conection to older older style helps an MA's mythology, it doesn't hurt it.
    Well, they could think all sorts of things, particularly that the Gracies invented it or that it evolved over the hundred years of vale tudo fighting or that they got it from indigenous tribes out of the jungles of Brazil. In fact, I think most people think about it more that the gracies made it up than that it was more invented by judoka and the Gracies just do it well. In fact, that seems to be a big part of the debate right now in this very thread and people are saying this -- that BJJ is really this very different art that evolved into what it is based on NHB fighting in Brazil.
  5. Forseti is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    176

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 1:38am


     Style: Wrath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyS
    But why would they leave if they know they're not going to be getting the same thing?

    If we assume that BJJ is a fad, then the reasons people want to do BJJ are:
    1) They want to be like a Gracie
    2) They want to be like NHB fighters
    3) They want to learn to fight on the ground like BJJ'ers.

    The first two rule out Kodokan Judo and I don't see how spending the majority of your training time learning throws will in any way be equivalent to learning BJJ. Also, if your claims were true, why would people go from Judo to BJJ to learn groundwork if they are essentially learning the same thing as you suggest?

    Seriously, your not making sense.
    I didn't say they would leave. Haven't we been over that?

    They do not spend the majority of their time doing throws. Or, at least not in my experience and based on my own research on the matter. They spend more like half the time. However it is true that half the ground time is spent on pinning. So, that maybe has only 25% of the time on what a BJJer does all the time: submissions.

    Nevertheless, the newcomer is wanting to be a good fighter not specifically learn to fight on the ground. To some extent that will mean learning to fight on the ground and might rule out styles with no ground fighting. On the other hand, having take downs would be nice too. More people are choosing BJJ for its efficacy than just because they like the ground fighting. If ground fighting had no efficacy most people certainly wouldn't do it.
  6. Forseti is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    176

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 2:33am


     Style: Wrath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyDaHedgehog
    Didn't you just fucking say that TKD isn't really that different from Karate, that in fact your instructor used to describe it as "korean karate?"

    I thought you were actually making some kind of sense until now, the self-contradiction is now obvious enough that even my sleep-deprived brain picks it up.
    In fact I believe you were talking about the post on this page:

    http://bullshido.net/forums/showthre...&page=24&pp=15

    where I say

    "I think you have the worng impression about the merit of being called a new style. I do not view kodokan judo, for instance, as an improvement or evolution of jujutsu. It clearly is quite distinct from it for its lack of techniques, though. I don't know anything about goju and kyokushin. I don't know that the distinction between TKD and Shotokan is warranted having done some TKD, myself, and seen shotokan. It almost surely is for kukkiwon TKD since there are different katas and so on, but ITF style seems to be virtually identical. So, TKD really is just "korean karate" as my instructor did in fact characterize it several times. Not even when I was in TKD did I think it was that different from karate -- as different as many think Gracie's style is from something more mundane like judo."
  7. Mouthfire is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    299

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 2:39am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nah... never happen
  8. Can Chaser is offline
    Can Chaser's Avatar

    Too sick and broken to train

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    609

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 2:52am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, to add my 2 centws worth, I do Kodokan Judo as well as bjj, a bit. I didn't start for a long while because of the commute, which is why I'm stopping. It gets fucking old.

    Regardless. At bjj, I have really good escapes, because at judo, we spend a lot of time on pins and escapes. I can also maintain what bjj calls "superior positions' fairly well as a reslut of judo. The only submissions I know are armbars and chokes, and therefore I've gotten caught in those a lot. Well, like, more than a lot.

    Leg submissions seem to be judo's gaping hole in groundwork. Other than that, my judo and bjj classes are fairly similar. Warmups, then drills, then takedowns, then groundwork, then sparring. In judo, we probably spend 60% of the time on throws, and 40% on groundwork. In BJJ, it's probably about 25-30% on the single and double leg takedowns, and the rest on groundwork. I **** you not.

    I say, who knows if bjj is just a fad, wait it the **** out, and in the meantime do whatever the hell works the best in the now.
    You're just JEALOUS!
  9. supercrap is offline
    supercrap's Avatar

    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Least Cool Guy in all of Japan
    Posts
    2,296

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 3:22am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJJ - the new wing chun (TM)
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
    Scramble Stuff
  10. TylerDurden is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Cheeseland
    Posts
    1,177

    Posted On:
    2/16/2005 9:15am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/HapKiDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Having trained both Judo and BJJ for a bit now I can fairly say BJJ is better on the ground. Now I have never rolled with a Kosen Judo player, so I cannot comment on that. But I have trained with alot of Judo people with far more experience than I, and on the ground they just are not as good. Standing they are a nightmare, and that is pretty much to be expected.

    Is BJJ the only way to learn submission ground work? Of course not, and I have never heard a BJJ player say that. Sambo, Catch, Shooto all very good ways to learn ground work. And obviously if Kosen Judo spawned BJJ it must be pretty good on the ground as well. Now, where can you find a school to learn any of these? I know of one good Catch instructor in the Midwest, one Sambo school in my state and no Shooto or Kosen schools.
    Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.