Is BJJ just a fad?

**JohnnyS** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:06pm

Forseti,
My statement was based on this, which you wrote:
"It being a fad is based on the fact that its (inflated) popularity will go down as people realize that it is not as unique as they think it is."

Also, please respond to my question that since I've shown that there are different techniques, different philosophies and different training methodologies, what else is required to prove Kosen is a different art to BJJ.

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:06pm

I suppose we got mixed up at the part where none of your enumerated point made any sense, or supported what you had been saying, and another 5 pages of discussion followed where you manage to counter and re-counter your enumerated points.

**Forseti** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:11pm

Originally Posted by bushi51

Yes, I have trained both, and I say yes. Others of the same vein will agree.

I guess that might also be because of the equal time pinning in kodokan judo, now that I think of it.

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:16pm

So Forseti if BJJ is a fad for the reasons you describe, who is carrying this fad? The martial arts noobs looking for styles?

**bushi51** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:20pm

Now you are starting to see.

That and the staleness of guard work. The Judo guard is mostly used as a stall position at least not the dynamic attack position it is in BJJ. They have the same techniques, but emphasis them differently. BJJ has somany guard passes, guard pass counters, half guard sweeps, etc. its hard to keep up. Yes, Judo can do the same things most the time, but they never had to. If Submission Judo was created, then the two arts would begin to merge. Until then the Hold down Holds Judo back in the submisson department (Pun intended)

**Forseti** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:23pm

Originally Posted by JohnnyS

Forseti,
My statement was based on this, which you wrote:
"It being a fad is based on the fact that its (inflated) popularity will go down as people realize that it is not as unique as they think it is."

Also, please respond to my question that since I've shown that there are different techniques, different philosophies and different training methodologies, what else is required to prove Kosen is a different art to BJJ.

They have to be "sufficiently different". That is a philosophically vague term. What precisely is entailed by it is debatable. But there are nevertheless clear cut cases. Boxing is a different art than wing chun even though both of them are known for their hand techniques. Kukkiwon style TKD really is quite different from karate even though they both have kicking and punching.

And its not always consistent soemtimes there seems to develop a greater difference between schools within a style than there is between a lot of different styles. It is the similarity of Kosen Judo to BJJ relative to other things in the martial arts that is important to one of the premises of my argument.

But now that I am pissing an Admin off, I suppose we should stop directly discussing this point...

**Aesopian** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:26pm

Please point me to the nearest Kosen judo school and I will study there.

**JohnnyS** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:28pm

Aesopian,
Are you not feeling special and unique anymore? :lol:

**Forseti** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:29pm

Originally Posted by bushi51

Now you are starting to see.

That and the staleness of guard work. The Judo guard is mostly used as a stall position at least not the dynamic attack position it is in BJJ. They have the same techniques, but emphasis them differently. BJJ has somany guard passes, guard pass counters, half guard sweeps, etc. its hard to keep up. Yes, Judo can do the same things most the time, but they never had to. If Submission Judo was created, then the two arts would begin to merge. Until then the Hold down Holds Judo back in the submisson department (Pun intended)

Well, I wouldn't go too far. Of course if you spend half the time on something that is irrelevant to the fight then it is more like half the training time in the end. If you got points for pins that could end the fight in ippon, would you say the same about BJJ vs newaza kodokan judo?

My point wasn't that kodokan judo was the same as BJJ or that it had just as good of a ground game.

**Forseti** · Posted On: 2/15/2005 11:32pm

Originally Posted by Aesopian

So Forseti if BJJ is a fad for the reasons you describe, who is carrying this fad? The martial arts noobs looking for styles?

I think it is mostly the newbies. Just like I said, I think the fad has run its course amongst the professionals. Again, the fad was the BJJ or go home attitude. Once the fad runs its course, there will still be a BJJ contingent. People will just be much more indifferent to it than before.