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  1. Pandinha is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 10:25am

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Weight training and BJJ

    I started BJJ again about 3 months ago. I stopped in Dec due to work taking too much of my time.

    One of the problems I had was the massive weight gain I experienced after moving back. I was around the 270lbs limit, and as you know, all that weight sucks in BJJ.

    I kinda went nuts with the weight training, almost every day. Lost 5 lbs of fat, gained 12 of muscle.

    For those who have done the weight training, and i'm talking heavy, I do 120lbs each hand (240lbs) on the hammer shoulder press for reps, and shrug 110lbs each hand for reps. I'd give you bench press, but dropped them years ago due to elbow pain, what are you experiences with BJJ and did the extra weight and strength help or hinder you?

    As much as I've lost, I'm still at 254lbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  2. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 10:40am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The biggest concern that ANY MA can have, besides over training, is getting to comfortable with "muscling techniques" rather than relying on skill.
    That is the biggest beef most MA instructors have with ST, many noobs that do MA and ST tend to muscle their techniques.
    Now an experienced MA can add ST and not worry about that, but most rookies don't know the difference between get the lock/sub based on technqiue or on strength alone.

    Extra strength ALWAYS helps, but you need to rely on technique even more so, at times even force your self to.
  3. SamHarber is offline

    Taking a break

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 10:47am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Got to agree with Ronin69. I've gotten a lot stronger over the last few months, but I've been substituting skill for that strength when training with other newbs. When I go with someone more experienced, they just neutralise all my strength advantages because they've got the technique.
    It means I need to relearn everything.
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989
  4. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 11:11am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As long as you're using your strength and weight well, and know when you're substituting it for technical skill you're fine.

    Your weight and strength are an asset not a hinderance in grappling.

    As for it slowing your learning down, only if you're rolling with schmucks and weenies.
    Last edited by Dochter; 2/11/2005 2:02pm at .
  5. Mr. Mantis is offline
    Mr. Mantis's Avatar

    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 11:12am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I can't speak to BJJ, but in striking, the general rule is, "the bigger they are, the harder they hit" and the more strength you have, the more techniques are available to you.

    I think the majority of MAists are not strong enough, you don't seem to have that problem.

    I'd say you have some good qualities that will play well in the striking game if you care to train in that fashion.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  6. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 11:20am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Strength will always help, but strength without technique is always regarded with contempt. Roy Harris offers an awesome plan for ensuring you don't muscle your way through sparring:
    To overcome this problem, you are going to need the help of a good friend who trains with you.

    For starters, I would tell you to do 50 push ups and 50 squats before you grappling each opponent. That way, your strength will leave you shortly and you will only have technique to fall back on. Yes, over time you will get stronger. However, then all you will have to do is add more reps!

    Secondly, have a good (BJJ educated) training partner watch you as you grapple. Tell him to watch for good technique, as well as those you muscle your way through. Punish yourself with push ups or squats for each violation. For example, every time your friend sees you use brute strength to accomplish a goal, he will make a note of it. When you finish grappling, he will tell you that you used your size and strength on four occasions. For each violation, you must perform 20 to 30 squats. Then, once you finish the squats, you must either grapple with another person immediately or do sit ups until the next match. This is the only way you can be honest with yourself about how much strength you are using.

    Finally, ask yourself these two questions at the end of each month:

    Am I still using the same amount of strength to accomplish my goals?

    Am I using less strength to accomplish my goals?

    If it is not getting easier to accomplish certain goals, you are still using the same amount of strength you have been using for quite some time. The real sign of progress is not how many times you make a person tap, or how fast you made them tap. Rather, it is how much strength you used in the process. Those who have great technique flow around their opponent's movement. They meet a wall of resistance and then go around it, go under it or over it.

    Good training to you,

    Roy Harris
  7. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 11:23am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know what, I've gotten beat by guys bigger than me solely because they were bigger than me. So what. Just means my juijitsu isn't good enough.

    I've also powered out of countless triangles, armbars etc. Against guys in my skill level I don't even worry about those moves. So what. Just means their juijitsu isn't good enough.

    Oh, I use my weight well and crush you from side control. Oh well shouldn't have let me get there. I rolled with a ~350 pound monster yesterday. He's better than me but really he dominates me and everyone else because a) you can't move him or any of his limbs and b) he knows when and where to place his weight. So what it means he's going to beat me. It also will teach me to never get put on my back by someone like that.

    Use what you have. The 'you only won because of your size is a cop out' even if we all think it at times.
  8. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 11:24am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    Strength will always help, but strength without technique is always regarded with contempt. Roy Harris offers an awesome plan for ensuring you don't muscle your way through sparring:
    To overcome this problem, you are going to need the help of a good friend who trains with you.

    For starters, I would tell you to do 50 push ups and 50 squats before you grappling each opponent. That way, your strength will leave you shortly and you will only have technique to fall back on. Yes, over time you will get stronger. However, then all you will have to do is add more reps!

    Secondly, have a good (BJJ educated) training partner watch you as you grapple. Tell him to watch for good technique, as well as those you muscle your way through. Punish yourself with push ups or squats for each violation. For example, every time your friend sees you use brute strength to accomplish a goal, he will make a note of it. When you finish grappling, he will tell you that you used your size and strength on four occasions. For each violation, you must perform 20 to 30 squats. Then, once you finish the squats, you must either grapple with another person immediately or do sit ups until the next match. This is the only way you can be honest with yourself about how much strength you are using.

    Finally, ask yourself these two questions at the end of each month:

    Am I still using the same amount of strength to accomplish my goals?

    Am I using less strength to accomplish my goals?

    If it is not getting easier to accomplish certain goals, you are still using the same amount of strength you have been using for quite some time. The real sign of progress is not how many times you make a person tap, or how fast you made them tap. Rather, it is how much strength you used in the process. Those who have great technique flow around their opponent's movement. They meet a wall of resistance and then go around it, go under it or over it.

    Good training to you,

    Roy Harris

    Hi there, my name is Aesopian and I am a roy harris nutrider !

    * addicts all at once*

    HI AESOPIAN !!
  9. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/09/2005 11:25am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like how you included yourself in that supporting group.
  10. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Oct 2002
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2005 2:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dochter
    Your weight and strength are an asset not a hinderance in grappling.

    As for it slowing your learning down, only if you're rolling with schmucks and weenies.
    I should probably clarify and back off of how I phrased this and later comments. You shouldn't rely solely on your strength and let it hinder you in learning how to move and escape properly but you also shouldn't be afraid to use it when you're rolling live or competing.

    The super flexible guys don't tap to subs they don't have to, you shouldn't avoid using your gifts either. If I can curl your entire weight, you probably shouldn't try and armbar me and I'm not going to just let you.

    While anything that is a crutch is bad strength doesn't need to be.

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