Thread: What you think?
2/09/2005 9:16am, #11
That's why I prefer teh Keown/Peter David hulk...At least HE could form a sentence....And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".
--Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
2/09/2005 10:29am, #12
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
As far as the dips go, I've always seen them to be good auxillery lifts for the triceps and have worked well for me. While they work the same muscle groups, they have a different emphasis on different muscles. I could see skull crushers as an alt.
As far as bicep curls go, I know I can't do chins after doing sets of pull ups as they are basically the same. I don't think my friend can either. If you are saying to just do more pullups/chinups and skip the curls, I"m saying that I'm suggesting to do as many sets of pullups as he can, and then do curls as well. Whether they are cable or not is up to him.
As far as T-bar rows being akward, I certainly haven't felt it to be so. But everyone's stuck together differently, so I guess it's up to him to decide if he wants the lower back strain of Bent over rows or risk the shoulder discomfort..
As for abs and cardio, that's separate from this, I'm just suggesting the weight lifting routine ;)
To address the idea of redundancy.
Hams curls and DL's do work the hams I agree, but (just from personal experience) My hams aren't dead after DL while my lower back muscles are fatigued. In order to work my hams, I need to do the curls as well. Could be diff for other people, and if my friend is adequately worked by the DL's then maybe no ham curls for him.
Lunges are in there because I have them in my own routine in which i only work up to max triples for squat and then do a unilateral quad movement (as outlined in DeFranco's Westside for skinny bastards) because my legs aren't tired enough, and lunges work the legs differently. Indeed they may not be neccessary (or possible) for him to do as he will be doing many more squats than I am doing. So those may have to go.
As for what keinhaar brought up in regards to number of sets. It seems to me that one can do a set at max intensity, and still have enough to do more. I know that if I do a set of 10 to failure (10rm) I can rest a minute or so, and then up the weight a bit and do 8. I thought that was the principle of progressive resistance training. I know Mike Metzer advocated a 1 set philosophy, but as far as I know (and it isn't too far) that's the only guy it worked for. I'd rather stick with what works for everyone else. But if you have any articles or other info on this training idea then I'd appreciate it. Maybe what I think intensity is and what you say intensity is are different. In my mind, however, I can't see 1 set draining you from doing any more sets, and so I can't see how doing only 1 set works you enough. Could be wrong.
As for BWE: I onlyl have them there because it's the only resistance training he can do on friday. Is doing nothing better than doing BWE on friday? Or are BWE not going to make a difference enought to warrent doing them?
2/09/2005 10:35am, #13
2/09/2005 2:46pm, #14
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
Sorry, perhaps that is the incorrect term, I've gotten used to calling it auxillery because it is if you're a powerlifter who's goal is a big bench, and I get most of my info off of articles pertaining to powerlifters. But as size and strength is the main goal here and not a particular lift then perhaps its just 'another' lift.
2/09/2005 4:21pm, #15Originally Posted by Scrapper
PUNY SCRAPPER. . .
HMM. . .
HULK TINK YOU JES PUT HULK DOWN!!
BUT, HULK NOT SURE.
HULK WANT TO SMASH SCRAPPER!! BUT. . .
HULK NOT WANT PRETTY LADY TO TINK
HULK IS MONSTER.
UHH. . .
HULK GIVE SCRAPPER CHANCE.
SINCE SCRAPPER SAY HE LIFT LIKE HULK,
SCRAPPER CAN'T BE ALL BAD.
NOT LIKE UDDER FAKE LIFTERS AROUND HERE!!!!!
*quietly tiptoes down the hall*
BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!!!
(sorry, he is The Hulk.)
Last edited by Meex; 2/09/2005 4:30pm at .
2/10/2005 12:33am, #16
If you're doing a heavy bench or any kind of striking with your hands, I'd suggest doing some rotator cuff excersizes.
2/10/2005 1:43am, #17
Good god, This thread is like being shot out of a highspeed catapult into a cement wall.
Okay for starters as Keinharr stated. Pick a number of repetitions and stick to it. None of the 6-10 bullshit. If you want strength and size, keep the reps low and weight high. Also, you have wayyy too many exercises going on. All you're going to do is to start making your body go through the oxidative cycle rather than the predominately the ATP cycle from brief heavy loads. You have to ascertain which specific fitness goal you want. Power and Mass, Moderate Strength and Cardio, or predominately Cardio/Muscular endurance training with a little focus on power. It's like the Streets of Rage game for Sega, You can big the super strong guy, the guy in the middle or the super fast chick with bicycle kicks.
If you want character A, You need to focus primarily on compound movement lifts. As Meex's alterego stated, Bench, Squat, DL. Heavy weight at 80% of your max in a maximum total of 5 repetitions however, I doubt you'll get past 3 with heavy weight. Ideally for hypertrophy which is what this workout predominately focuses on, you need at least 20 repetitions throughout many sets. I personally do 3x8 and push the weight up on sets 4, 6 and 8. I'd suggest taking a compound lifting such as BP and doing it with Flatbar, DB and then something of your choice that's comprable, weighted dips if you choose. (Blah to BWE's) You'll need a high glycemic sugar and maybe a blend of Tyrosine and Leucine AA's while doing this workout to halt Catabolism and keep your glycogen levels up to have the energy to pull the workout through.
Character B- 3x10 Scheme among 3-4 compound exercises. Moderate weight of 60% give or take. Afterwards you can combine a bit of cardio into the workout if you choose.
Character C- 5x8-15 Scheme, You can go higher sets and fewer reps or vice versa. This will be predominately causing lactic acid buildup in you muscles through the oxidative cycle and you'll be pushing your muscles and cardiovascular system to better utilize the body's glycogen and get rid of waste. Pick as many compound exercises as you want with this one, I'd suggest 4 at minimum going up to 7 if you want to burn yourself into the ground. Weight around 30% or so. Combine this with some high intensity cardio (wind sprints,etc.) This workout can be incredibly hard as it is exhausting and will cause your body to rip through fats and energy like there's no tommorow. You'll need to have an insane caloric intake aswell as a source of energy while you lift/run, etc.
Exercising the Rotator Cuff doesn't make any sense, I'm not sure if you mean your Deltoideus or your teres minor and if that's the case, T-bar rows hit the Teres minor as well as Deadlifts. and most other compound lifts, aside from squats (duh) work the Deltoideus.
Screw Isolation exercises unless you have a load of time to be a bodybuilder. They won't serve any purpose and more often than not, you'll be understressing the stabilizers. Use freeweights, machines only if you have to for example, as a follow up to squats, you can Squat Press/Leg Press, but make sure to get that initial true lift down. I think that about covers it.
2/10/2005 11:15am, #18
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
So you're saying then to keep the reps the same. So you want me to keep the weight the same throughout the reps, as in find a weight I'll fail at during the last set only? Or you're saying to go less than full intensity on all the sets but the last one, to build up to a 5rm or whatever? One can't go full intensity on all the sets and keep the reps the same.
"Also, you have wayyy too many exercises going on. All you're going to do is to start making your body go through the oxidative cycle rather than the predominately the ATP cycle from brief heavy loads."
Are you saying there is too many sets? Or too many diff types?
"I'd suggest taking a compound lifting such as BP and doing it with Flatbar, DB and then something of your choice that's comprable, weighted dips if you choose. (Blah to BWE's)"
Does this meanthat instead of doing diff types of exercises for the same muscle group, stick to one type and keep the number of sets the same? I'm not sure that makes sense.
Remember the main goal here is mass, with strength as an aside. The two require different training schemes.
From what I'm hearing, the workout should look like this:
Bench: 4 x 6
Pull ups (weighted if neccessary): 4 x 6
Incline Dumbell Press (or Military Press or Dips): 4 x 6
Upright rows (or T-bar/Bent over rows): 4 x 6
Squat: 4 x 6
SL DL (Or romanian DL): 4 x 6
Lunges (or stepups): 4 x 8
Calf Raises 4 x 8
Shrugs 4 x 10
Grip training and abs as needed.
2/10/2005 12:59pm, #19
Alright, if you're just starting to lift again or for the first time, I suggest this for mass and power.
50-60% of 1rm
Weighted Dips 3x10
DL 3x10 (Wednesday Only) Real Deadlifts, not Romanian ones, SL deadlifts suck.
Incline situps, Full Incline 3x10, slowly.
Do this for about 4-6 weeks. Make sure to get 1.0+ gram of protien per day plus at least 500 calories more than you normally take in. If you want to gain mass, and really get into this stuff, you have to keep a strict chart of what you're eating. I don't mean eat rice and chicken all day, eat whatever you want, just keep track of the amount of protien, calories, carbohydrates and fat grams you're taking in. The diet is the MOST imporant part of your lifting goals.
After you've attained your base fitness, then you have to decide what goal you want and then you can follow what I've posted based on that. For now, you have ignore what ever specialization areas people are going to tell you to do. At this point you don't need any Hypertrophic training, etc. You'll just impede your progress.
As for your questions, yes you can go full intensity on an 8x3 scheme or 4x5 scheme. You have to give yourself enough rest in between sets to rebuild the ATP. Chances are with the 4x5 you'll fail on the 4th and 5th in which you'll need a spotter to slowly lift the weight off of you to get a good overload and hypertrophy. With the 8x3 scheme, generally on the 5-8 set, the last repetition is the failure and the same rule goes with the spotter.
As for the Oxidative cycle, too many exercises and repetitions. If I do 6 exercises 6-10 repsx4 sets, that's 148-240 reps overall. The only thing you'll be doing is Catabolizing the hell out of yourself and gaining muscular endurance rather than overall power and mass. And if mass is your goal only like a body builder, then Catabolism is your nemesis.
Compound lifts work large groups of muscles at once. Squats, for example, are all of your upper legs, glutes, abdomen and lower back. DL's work almost every muscles in your body, etc. More efficient than tricep extensions, curls, and machine work.
2/10/2005 1:18pm, #20
May I ask what is the true difference between your regular Deadlifts and Romanian Deadlifts?