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  1. Macistani is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 9:29am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Target heart rate?

    So, as everyone knows by now, I'm the worst possible martial artist when it comes do doing fitness "correctly." I decided to actually research "proper" running and compare it to what I was doing.

    Background:
    I run 5 miles every other day (except weekends, when I don't exercise because I am the lazyness) and I'm 23 years old.

    For the past two weeks I've tracked by heartrate and during my runs (which lasts about 40-50 minutes depending on stuff) my heartrate is about 170. Is keeping my heartrate that high for that long a bad thing?
  2. virtual_mantis is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 11:11am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The generally accepted formula for max heart rate is 220 minus your age. This is just a standard guide. Your actual max heart rate may be higher or lower by a bit.

    So your Max heart rate would be 220 - 23 = 197 bpm

    You're running at 170bpm that is about 86% of your max heart rate.

    Is this bad? It depends on what you would consider bad. Is it bad for your heart? No, it's actually very very good for your heart.
  3. Macistani is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 11:20am


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nifty. Just wanted to make sure my heart wasn't going to explode like something out of a kung-fu flick.
  4. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 12:08pm


     Style: Currently Inactive

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You'd be better off doing shorter faster runs . Less strain on the joints.
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  5. mixicus is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 1:54pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can also use the Heart Rate Reserve (Karvonen Formula), below instead of the Max Heart Rate Formula:

    220 - Age = Maximum Heart Rate
    The formula:
    (Max Heart Rate - Resting Heart Rate) x Intensity + Rest. Heart Rate = Training Heart Rate

    General ranges for cardio vascular training per ACMS recommendations

    Low Intensity: 35-60% of HRM or 50-60% of HRR
    Moderate Intensity: 60-80% of HRM or 60-70% of HRR
    High Intensity: 80-90% of HRM or 70-85% of HRR

    Are you training in the right range? That depends on what you are training for. Is your running meant for general "fitness/health" or a specific sport - work function.
  6. Macistani is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 2:26pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, the obvious answer is martial arts, but really its general health since I'm not a competitive fighter and I don't brawl (much.).
  7. mixicus is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 4:34pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not knowing your specific physical condition (i.e cardio vascular or respiratory probelms), it sounds like you are in a good zone if not a touch high to train general cardiorespiratory fitness and the involved slow twitch muscles for endurance according to ACSM guidelines.

    If you are interested in training your cardiorespiratory fitness specifically/mainly for martial arts (fights) you may consider changing your program. Fights use high intensity "bursts" of energy followed by a period of active rest. Activities in the duration of ~<1min are support by the ATP-CP and anaerobic glycolysis systems. Fast twitch muscles are responsible for these motor functions (high intesty, short duration). Training your body like you'll use it will have the greatest cross over to your MA. To do this think about interval training (jog-sprint-jog & repeat). There have been specific recommendations laid out in other threads (search: HIIT or interval training).

    Hope that helps.
  8. Macistani is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 6:50pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll give HIIT a try in a few weeks (I want to be able to hit 45 minutes without dry-heaving)

    Like I said, I don't fight amateur or professional, so its all sports and fitness to me. ;)

    HIIT sounds like it might be a fun change though.
  9. Nid is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 8:09pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    History lesson about Target heart rate...paraphrased.

    Some dude took some elite olympic rowers and shackled them to rowing machines to see how high their heart rates could go. He found the theoretical maxes, broke 'em down %-wise and correlated a bunch of metabolic happenstance with the THRs.

    Worfless, in other words.
  10. katana is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/07/2005 8:12pm

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     Style: BJJ, no-gi, boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I use heart rate mainly for cycling but you should find out your actual max HR. The standard 220 minus age is OK but doesn't always work that well. For instance I'm in my 30's but have a max HR of about 200 when cycling. However this is the max heart rate for cycling. If I'm running I find that I can't get up that high because my body simply can't keep up the pace. Go figure. So you should try to warm up and then do a very hard sprint until you feel like you're about to collapse. Then either quickly look at your watch (if your vision isn't blurry ;) ) or use the MAX HR record feature to see what you got.

    The important thing is to not operate in the 80-85% range. This is a zone they say is too fast for endurance training and not hard enough to work the anaerobic system. There is a good debate around this though. I'll generally stay below about 80% for endurance training and go 85-100% for intervals (http://www.cptips.com/hrmntr.htm). I acutally use a wattmeter on my bike now instead of HR. It's more accurate for doing workouts but this isn't practical if you're jogging.

    More recently I've ditched the HR monitor and just use perceived effort (http://www.cptips.com/percxtn.htm). This is easier once you get a good idea of how hard you're working. This is where the HR comes in because you can see what your levels of intensity really translate to.

    I've used HIIT training before and it does work well. I think for fighting it's great because you frequently have these really fast bursts of speed followed by brief recoveries. It's hard on the knees though jogging when doing the intensity you need. Be careful.
    Last edited by katana; 2/07/2005 8:17pm at .
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