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  1. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2008 6:28am


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Gracie Self-Defence system is, I believe, separate from their BJJ curriculum. It has been the subject of much debate on this site if by doing this they are giving into the Mcdojofication of their art.

    What Mr Lavallee is doing in that demo is what is more commonly referred to as JJJ. He does an OK, job at it. But, given the technique choices in that demo (No ground work) I suspect he is doing the belt system for the SD side and not the BJJ side.

    Last edited by Askari; 7/09/2008 6:36am at .
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  2. 1point2 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2008 8:03am

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     Style: 剛 and 柔

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    Quote Originally Posted by Askari
    The Gracie Self-Defence system is, I believe, separate from their BJJ curriculum. It has been the subject of much debate on this site if by doing this they are giving into the Mcdojofication of their art.

    What Mr Lavallee is doing in that demo is what is more commonly referred to as JJJ. He does an OK, job at it. But, given the technique choices in that demo (No ground work) I suspect he is doing the belt system for the SD side and not the BJJ side.

    I'd never heard this. Doesn't Matt Thornton discuss BJJ as being 4 components--self defense, sport grappling, vale tudo, and...I can't remember the last, so I'll call it "fairy dust". Seriously, a separate S-D track? Has anyone seen this?

    PS. He specifically said that it was the S-D portion of the BJJ curriculum, so it would be wholly incorrect to say it's JJJ. It's *like* JJJ. But I've seen Gracie demos of the same nature.
  3. joecos is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2008 8:35am


     Style: Karate, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    He specifically says in this video "...when I was getting my next rank in jiu jitsu..." -- notice hs DID NOT say what that rank was. For all we know, he could have been getting a blue belt.
    Last edited by joecos; 7/09/2008 12:40pm at .
  4. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2008 3:44pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    Steve LaVallee is one of the most legitimate instructors and professional school owners in the country. I'm not sure what specifically you are debating. He teaches a predominately Americanized Kenpo system with a blend of other styles. He's a legit 7th Degree Black Belt and I believe a 1st Degree BJJ Black Belt as well.
    So you, as a TKD / Karate instructor, are verifying his 7th degree in Americanized Kenpo how exactly? Are you in his lineage, know his instructors, etc?

    And what is the source of your claiming he is a 1st Degree BJJ Black Belt?

    As you'll learn around here, "most legitimate instructors and professional school owners in the country" is not something that is measureable. We tend to gravitate towards legitimate ranking in systems we know are combat proven in pressure tested environments like MMA.
  5. chingythingy is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2008 3:54pm


     Style: BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    So Lavallee is a blue belt in Gracie Combatives like the Dr. on the show "Dr. 90210"?
    I'd believe that. I'm not sure what this demo has to do with any of that, other than it's pretty hilarious to see staged BJJ demos. I guess the Gracies used to do some of that too in the 90's. A couple of judo hip throws, some really high arm bars and wrist locks, and a couple of combatives moves really aren't impressive at all.

    To put things in perspective with what that means really in true BJJ grappling I saw a legit late 50's blue belt a couple weeks ago competing in the adult division of a state BJJ tournament against a lot younger guys. He cleaned up a lot of younger guys with legit skills and conditioning and took 4th place. That guy is miles beyond what a Gracie Combatives blue belt has in terms of real applicable grappling skills.

    I mean it's cool and all that older guys like that are training. It's better than ignoring the ground game. Dan Inosanto has a legit BJJ black belt and he's older. Chuck Norris too from the Machados. And Ed O'Neill - the Married with Children guy just got his BB from Rorian after 13 years and is a legit BJJ BB.

    But please don't toss around the BJJ BB credentials like that. I don't see anywhere Lavellee is claiming to be a BJJ BB. When you do that it just serves to piss off many people who have really developed the skill levels through many years of hard training with a performance based art.
    Last edited by chingythingy; 7/10/2008 3:58pm at .
  6. DKJr is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2008 4:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

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    Quote Originally Posted by chingythingy
    So Lavallee is a blue belt in Gracie Combatives like the Dr. on the show "Dr. 90210"?
    I'd believe that. I'm not sure what this demo has to do with any of that, other than it's pretty hilarious to see staged BJJ demos. I guess the Gracies used to do some of that too in the 90's. A couple of judo hip throws, some really high arm bars and wrist locks, and a couple of combatives moves really aren't impressive at all.

    To put things in perspective with what that means really in true BJJ grappling I saw a legit late 50's blue belt a couple weeks ago competing in the adult division of a state BJJ tournament against a lot younger guys. He cleaned up a lot of younger guys with legit skills and conditioning and took 4th place. That guy is miles beyond what a Gracie Combatives blue belt has in terms of real applicable grappling skills.

    I mean it's cool and all that older guys like that are training. It's better than ignoring the ground game. Dan Inosanto has a legit BJJ black belt and he's older. Chuck Norris too from the Machados. And Ed O'Neill - the Married with Children guy just got his BB from Relson after 13 years and is a legit BJJ BB.

    But please don't toss around the BJJ BB credentials like that. I don't see anywhere Lavellee is claiming to be a BJJ BB. When you do that it just serves to piss off many people who have really developed the skill levels through many years of hard training with a performance based art.
    Just a minor correction here Ed O' Neill got his BB form RORION Gracie, not RELSON. In my opinion its says more about combat skills from Relson than from Rorion just in my competition experience.
  7. Askari is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2008 4:12pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1point2
    I'd never heard this. Doesn't Matt Thornton discuss BJJ as being 4 components--self defense, sport grappling, vale tudo, and...I can't remember the last, so I'll call it "fairy dust". Seriously, a separate S-D track? Has anyone seen this?

    PS. He specifically said that it was the S-D portion of the BJJ curriculum, so it would be wholly incorrect to say it's JJJ. It's *like* JJJ. But I've seen Gracie demos of the same nature.
    Compare Mr Lavallee's techno music crap to this next video, see the difference? If you cant see the difference you are blind.

    YouTube - Rickson and Royler Demo

    Search for Gracie Combatives.

    What Mr Lavallee has trained in is a version of Gracie training that is of very short duration and allows him to claim training with them.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  8. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2008 10:27pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lavallee has the unsightly habit of inserting "Black Belt" into every conceivable crevice in his website, his speech, his events, and pretty much anything else I could find on him. It's unsightly, garish and crude. This is compounded by the flamboyantly colored gi's that the man wears and has his class wear. Neither observation is on the man's skill or learning experience, but it's still annoying to see.

    According to one of the student's blogs (http://www.bbat50.com/) Lavallee has trained at the Gracie Academy in Miami for roughly ten years. I have invited the blogger/student to the thread.

    Also, I could not find any information on Pedro Melendez, the supposed Professor and Jiu-jitsu instructor of Mr Lavallee.

    Oh, I also took at look at the photo gallery from the website provided and found most to be XMA styled kicks and demos or posing of some such, no groundwork or grappling. (Note: I've only looked at two of the 5 or so albums so I could be missing some hidden jewel or something)

    Typical Picture:
    Last edited by WorldWarCheese; 7/09/2008 10:29pm at .
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2008 9:02am

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     Style: xingyi

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    http://www.gracieacademy.com/certifiedbeltholders.htm

    Steve Lavelle is a purple belt according to the above website.


    *Edit*
    Is it a misspelling or is it two different guys?

    Steve Lavallee is the guy in question. The certified belt holder has one "e."

    *edit*
    Also, more from the Gracie's own News page:

    http://www.graciemiami.com/news.htm

    Has the same video that Stephen Oliver posted. Not saying it verifies the rank. Just showing that they know about the guy.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 7/10/2008 9:17am at .
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2008 9:34am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

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