Thread: Shotokan vs Kyukoshin (kata):
1/27/2005 1:34am, #19chambersGuest
Shotokan vs Kyukoshin (kata):
What is the real difference between Shotokan Karate and Kyukoshin Karate? .. Does Kyukoshin get more respect based solely on the fact that they spar with more contact or are there significant things in the Kyukoshin kata that you don't find in Shotokan? I mean, the pinan are the same in every style of Karate but in the higher up kata, what is there in Kyukoshin that isn't in Shotokan or Ishin or whatever?
What specific things are there in the curriculum that are different?
Last edited by 9chambers; 1/27/2005 1:38am at .
1/27/2005 1:51am, #2
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
- Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ
Shotokan never killed no bulls with bare hands. :P
1/27/2005 1:57am, #39chambersGuest
Oyama founded Kyukoshin and Funakoshi founded Shotokan. Yes, both guys were cool. Which guy was more cool? I don't really care. Make your own thread and discuss it. This thread is about what significant techniques are taught in Kyukoshin that aren't in Shotokan.
Hm, it seems Ninjutsu has one-upped Kyukoshin on the whole bull issue..
"Very little are known about the legendary ninja. It is said that Danzo was a master of illusion. For example, a historical document says that he swallowed a bull in front of more than 20 people. But another ninja was seeing it and said "never cheated, he is only riding on the bull's back," then people noticed that it was an illusion. Today, researchers think his illusion as a type of group-hypnosis. In fact, ninja were studying psychology very well, so it was not strange that very skilled hypnotist were among them."
Last edited by 9chambers; 1/27/2005 2:08am at .
1/27/2005 2:19am, #49chambersGuest
I did think about it .. and my position on it is that the two Ryu have pretty much the same techniques. Oyama's guys just have more contact during sparring. I am pretty sure that Oyama added some kata but I doubt there was anything all that different in them. I've never looked at the Kyukoshin kata/bunkai so I don't know for sure. It's just my theory. I am asking because I want to know if I am wrong. I don't want to go around saying that Kyukoshin guys are only tougher because of the more intense sparring if that isn't the case.
Did Oyama improve on the techniques? Did he add more efficient or cooler techniques or is it just that he had his guys make contact in sparring? Is there anything in the curriculum that is very different? I'm asking, .. couldn't someone study Shotokan and spar by Kyukoshin standards and be just as tough as a Kyukoshin guy? They are the same techniques, right? Am I incorrect? I sincerely want to know. I'm not that educated about Kyukoshin kata.
1/27/2005 2:32am, #5
It would help if we had some clips of kyokushin and shotokan kata to compare.
I thought kyokushin came more from goju?
1/27/2005 7:47am, #6
Kyokushin was a "combination" of Shotokan ( the Pinan/Heian katas), Japanese Goju ( the hand positioning, the conditioning and the Goju katas- sanchin, tensho, seiunchin, etc.), Muay Thai ( the shin based round kick,knees and elbows), judo, and even taiji.
The only thing that Kyokushin and shotokan have in common is the Pinan/Heian Katas and the Taikokyo ( or how ever way toy spell them), though the JKA does not do THOSE the Shotokai still do.
Other than those katas, kyokushin is more like Traditional Okinanwan Goju than any other of its "root systems" ( which is pretty strange considering that Japanese Goju was what Oyama was tarined in, under Yamaguchi).
Still, the main reason that Kyokushin is so highly regarded, aside from its great practioners ( Oyama, Kurosai, Ashihara, Ninomyam, Hug, Blumming, Filho, Asia and Ronin69), is the simple fact that it is a HARD contact system in training and a full contact system in competition.
It is a system that values effectiveness over tradition ( or at least it was), it is a system that is always open to innovation ( or it was, ex: offshoots of kyokushin: Shidokan, Enshin, Ashihara, Budo-kai, etc) and that it is is all for cross training in other system to become a better fighter ( or at least it was like that).
1/27/2005 8:05am, #7
- Join Date
- May 2004
- TKD, MT
Mas Oyama was a Korean. He took discarded kicks in Taekwondo and integrated his system with Shotokan and Judo to produce t3h d34dly, and then took an idea or two from Musashi and ancient bull-swallowing Ninji to develop the "other" aspects of asskickery.
1/27/2005 9:04am, #8
The only difference is that kyokushin kata has both "hadoken" and "Shoryuken" moves~~~"People think that judo is only unarmed combat - but you are never unarmed when you can hit someone with a planet. "
- Uncyclopedia entry on Judo
1/27/2005 9:43am, #9
- Join Date
- May 2004
- TKD, MT
Oh sweet now I wanna learn Kyokushin more.
If I take trad muay thai do I get like t3h tig3r upp3rcutz???
1/27/2005 9:48am, #10
I don't know much about Shotokan kata, but by discussion the difference in terms of kata is missing the difference.
I do know this: I did a search on "Shotokan tournament" and got to the following page:
I did another search on "Kyokushin tournament" and got the the following page:
Not very scientific, but you get the idea,