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  1. 9chambers

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 1:34am


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shotokan vs Kyukoshin (kata):

    What is the real difference between Shotokan Karate and Kyukoshin Karate? .. Does Kyukoshin get more respect based solely on the fact that they spar with more contact or are there significant things in the Kyukoshin kata that you don't find in Shotokan? I mean, the pinan are the same in every style of Karate but in the higher up kata, what is there in Kyukoshin that isn't in Shotokan or Ishin or whatever?

    What specific things are there in the curriculum that are different?
    Last edited by 9chambers; 1/27/2005 1:38am at .
  2. Judah Maccabee is offline
    Judah Maccabee's Avatar

    Bullshido Wikipedia Delegate

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 1:51am

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shotokan never killed no bulls with bare hands. :P
  3. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 1:57am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oyama founded Kyukoshin and Funakoshi founded Shotokan. Yes, both guys were cool. Which guy was more cool? I don't really care. Make your own thread and discuss it. This thread is about what significant techniques are taught in Kyukoshin that aren't in Shotokan.

    p.s.

    Hm, it seems Ninjutsu has one-upped Kyukoshin on the whole bull issue..

    "Very little are known about the legendary ninja. It is said that Danzo was a master of illusion. For example, a historical document says that he swallowed a bull in front of more than 20 people. But another ninja was seeing it and said "never cheated, he is only riding on the bull's back," then people noticed that it was an illusion. Today, researchers think his illusion as a type of group-hypnosis. In fact, ninja were studying psychology very well, so it was not strange that very skilled hypnotist were among them."

    http://www.katch.ne.jp/%7Ediva/juku/webcls/qtns7.html
    Last edited by 9chambers; 1/27/2005 2:08am at .
  4. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 2:19am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did think about it .. and my position on it is that the two Ryu have pretty much the same techniques. Oyama's guys just have more contact during sparring. I am pretty sure that Oyama added some kata but I doubt there was anything all that different in them. I've never looked at the Kyukoshin kata/bunkai so I don't know for sure. It's just my theory. I am asking because I want to know if I am wrong. I don't want to go around saying that Kyukoshin guys are only tougher because of the more intense sparring if that isn't the case.

    Did Oyama improve on the techniques? Did he add more efficient or cooler techniques or is it just that he had his guys make contact in sparring? Is there anything in the curriculum that is very different? I'm asking, .. couldn't someone study Shotokan and spar by Kyukoshin standards and be just as tough as a Kyukoshin guy? They are the same techniques, right? Am I incorrect? I sincerely want to know. I'm not that educated about Kyukoshin kata.
  5. Zeddy is offline

    The Eternal n00b

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 2:32am

    Join us... or die
     Style: CM Boxing/BJJ/RBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It would help if we had some clips of kyokushin and shotokan kata to compare.

    I thought kyokushin came more from goju?
  6. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 7:47am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kyokushin was a "combination" of Shotokan ( the Pinan/Heian katas), Japanese Goju ( the hand positioning, the conditioning and the Goju katas- sanchin, tensho, seiunchin, etc.), Muay Thai ( the shin based round kick,knees and elbows), judo, and even taiji.

    The only thing that Kyokushin and shotokan have in common is the Pinan/Heian Katas and the Taikokyo ( or how ever way toy spell them), though the JKA does not do THOSE the Shotokai still do.

    Other than those katas, kyokushin is more like Traditional Okinanwan Goju than any other of its "root systems" ( which is pretty strange considering that Japanese Goju was what Oyama was tarined in, under Yamaguchi).

    Still, the main reason that Kyokushin is so highly regarded, aside from its great practioners ( Oyama, Kurosai, Ashihara, Ninomyam, Hug, Blumming, Filho, Asia and Ronin69), is the simple fact that it is a HARD contact system in training and a full contact system in competition.
    It is a system that values effectiveness over tradition ( or at least it was), it is a system that is always open to innovation ( or it was, ex: offshoots of kyokushin: Shidokan, Enshin, Ashihara, Budo-kai, etc) and that it is is all for cross training in other system to become a better fighter ( or at least it was like that).
  7. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 8:05am


     Style: TKD, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mas Oyama was a Korean. He took discarded kicks in Taekwondo and integrated his system with Shotokan and Judo to produce t3h d34dly, and then took an idea or two from Musashi and ancient bull-swallowing Ninji to develop the "other" aspects of asskickery.
  8. liuzg150181 is offline
    liuzg150181's Avatar

    Bonta-kun

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 9:04am


     Style: fumoffu!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only difference is that kyokushin kata has both "hadoken" and "Shoryuken" moves~~~
    "People think that judo is only unarmed combat - but you are never unarmed when you can hit someone with a planet. "
    - Uncyclopedia entry on Judo
  9. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 9:43am


     Style: TKD, MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oh sweet now I wanna learn Kyokushin more.

    If I take trad muay thai do I get like t3h tig3r upp3rcutz???
  10. garbanzo is offline
    garbanzo's Avatar

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 9:48am

    supporting member
     Style: MMA, Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know much about Shotokan kata, but by discussion the difference in terms of kata is missing the difference.

    I do know this: I did a search on "Shotokan tournament" and got to the following page:

    Shotokan


    I did another search on "Kyokushin tournament" and got the the following page:

    Kyokushin


    Not very scientific, but you get the idea,
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