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  1. v1o is offline

    Lightweight

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    189

    Posted On:
    2/12/2005 8:51pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: WSL Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look Judo deals mostly with throws and standup grappling, with some newaza.
    The argument is if you perform a good throw, say hip throw someone head first on the pavement, you wont need to use groundwork.

    I've seen bouncers execute standing judo type holds and locks on drunks. So i'm pretty much convinced that judo is best fit for self defense.

    With that in mind the judo way of thinking is still too focused on one-on-one application. In comparison to say wing chun which is focused on multitasking.
      #21
  2. Red Elvis is offline
    Red Elvis's Avatar

    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2005 9:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would recommend both.

    A Case for Wrestling:
    Typically wrestling is free when youíre in high school or college and you can't beat that with a stick. Wrestling will offer you some very good skill sets including takedowns, positional awareness, ground control etc. You will also improve your balance and sensitivity for weight distribution. One thing that cannot be overstated with wrestling if youíre on a team is conditioning. Wrestlers are taught to go all out and are very well conditioned and focused. You are not always going to find that in BJJ. You have a lot of opportunity for rest with BJJ and many BJJ players are not as focused as wrestlers and donít train as hard as wrestlers do. Having a solid foundation in wrestling is always a benefit in my opinion. In regards to wrestlers having trouble adapting to fighting on their backs etc. I think that is really BS. It may take a few times to give up your habit of giving your back but after a few RNCís you will learn thatís not the thing to do. Another benefit of the wrestler turned BJJ player is the fact that you will not be content to always resign yourself to an inferior position, which the guard is. Flame me if you want guys but the guard is inferior to having top positioning. You will find the ex wrestlers working harder when they grapple which is big in competition.

    A Case for BJJ:
    BJJ will also teach you sensitivity on the ground as well as proper weight distribution and balance. Most likely you will not be in peak condition as a wrestler would but with good time on the mat and some work on the side you can get damn close. BJJ is going to cost you money, which may or may not make a difference for you. The benefits of BJJ over wrestling obviously are the ability to finish your opponent with a variety of techniques including joint locks, cranks and chokes. If you get into a good school you can also practice with and without a gi, which is crucial to replicate different environmental factors. BJJ is better in regards to a smaller person having the ability to beat a larger person by using leverage and solid technique. Wrestling has solid technique as well but relies a lot on strength and is less useful against people who seriously outweigh you. BJJ players tend to play in non dominant positions which is the strong suit of BJJ however it can become a crutch to rely on when you can clearly attain a more dominant position. If you are training for a possible street altercation a good solid base in wrestling with the next level of the BJJ thrown in on top will be a better factor than training one without the other.

    To sum up they are both good and if you can do them both that is the ideal way to go. I would recommend you compliment them at the same time if possible but I would wrestle before BJJ if I had to only pick one at a time. If you can only do one for some reason (laziness is not an excuse) than I would say BJJ as the ability to finish is key.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
      #22
  3. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2005 9:18pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by v1o
    Look Judo deals mostly with throws and standup grappling, with some newaza.
    The argument is if you perform a good throw, say hip throw someone head first on the pavement, you wont need to use groundwork.

    I've seen bouncers execute standing judo type holds and locks on drunks. So i'm pretty much convinced that judo is best fit for self defense.

    With that in mind the judo way of thinking is still too focused on one-on-one application. In comparison to say wing chun which is focused on multitasking.
    I've used BJJ in street fights and found it to be very effective in terms of self-defense. Judo throws are not as easy to perform in real life situations especially when your opponent is not wearing a gi that gives you a very good solid grasp. If throws are your primary rational for an effective MA on the street then I would recommend Greco Roman wrestling as it doesn't rely on a strong grabbing platform. Also, throws don't end fights as much as one might think and quite often don't work as perfect in real life as they do in training/competition when your getting pummeled or in close quarters. That being said BJJ does tend to be somewhat weak in regards to throws but more than makes up for it if you find yourself on the ground by tripping/falling/losing your balance which is the reason many fights go to the ground.

    Are you saying that WC is more effective in some way than BJJ/Judo in terms of self-defense? I hope your not talking about trapping being your rational for multi tasking. What is your definition of WC ďmulti-taskingĒ btw?
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
      #23
  4. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/12/2005 9:20pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're wasting your time. Drink more wodka.
      #24
  5. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2005 2:10am

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesopian
    You're wasting your time. Drink more wodka.
    :drunken_s Already been!
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
      #25
  6. Errorr is offline

    Registered Member

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    Seattle
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    119

    Posted On:
    2/13/2005 10:06pm


     Style: TMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Add to which without exception anyone that I've ever met that wrestled for any amount of time is hard as hell. Another quality that seems inherent to wrestlers.
      #26
  7. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 12:15am

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Errorr
    Add to which without exception anyone that I've ever met that wrestled for any amount of time is hard as hell. Another quality that seems inherent to wrestlers.
    My 'ol lady would agree with the hard as hell sentiment!

    :sex:
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
      #27
  8. Cato is offline

    Lightweight

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    Feb 2005
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    Stockholm/Sweden
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    133

    Posted On:
    2/14/2005 3:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shorinjikempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A good aggressive wrestler is in my opinion very effective in real fights. A friend of mine that i worked as a bouncer with who have an elite wrestling background is like a terrier in a fight.
      #28
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