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  1. DanSevering is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 3:20pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >Range with boxers isn't that much of an issue, since they normall sit within punch range


    Astra I take you never boxed competitvely.
    In boxing you DO have to worry about range, especially if you opponent has the reach advantage. And why do you hear sayings like "Stick and move?" Because if the guys is stronger and you are quicker you are not going to stand toe to toe with him you are going to hit and get out of his range.

    Don't forget that reach-advantage can become a DISADVANTAGE if the other guy gets close, since the taller guy's arms become more bent and he loses power right when he needs it most for the infighting, while conversely the shorter guy can straighten his arms more, giving him MORE power; this is how shorter boxers like Tyson and Hagler were able to make short work of taller boxers who were bigger and stronger.
    They'd just charge right in and cut the taller guy to pieces while his long monkey-arms got uselessly jammed and folded, and he'd have to clinch or back away to optimum range, which likewise limited his counteroffensive possibilities.
    Often, however, shorter boxers made the mistake of trying to stay AWAY from a taller fighter to avoid his range, which is just plain suicide since you're playing his game-- as many found out the hard way, including Leonard when fighting Hearns; they become addicted to a style, and don't adapt to suit different conditions. This leads to the myth that taller fighters have an advantage, and when someone like Tyson or Hagler comes to shatter it by moving in for the KO, everyone who doesn't understand these principles are all aghast and dumbfounded.


    Edited by - dansevering on February 17 2003 14:38:39
  2. Blad3 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 3:38pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Submission Wrestling.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not sure how you get this from what I wrote. Read it again:

    striking and grappling skills must be integrated with trapping-skills to form a unified whole"
    This means that trapping is REQUIRED in MMA, in order to form a transition-stage between distance-striking and close-range grappling; this, in a nutshell, is Bruce Lee's big "secret weapon" but which is actually a big "no duh," your opponent's hands and feet etc. are always closer to your hands and feet than your body is, so you can trap from a safe distance and then follow-up to take advantage, and it would be just plain stupid not to trap-- it can be done with arms OR legs, or even the head. Contrarily, in boxing you CAN'T trap; even if you clinch then the ref breaks you up, while rabbit-punching in the clinch is strictly forbidden, while a KO by this is an automatic DQ.
    okay sorry my bad - I see what you mean now.

    however like you say, you can trap in boxing in a sense - but the ref will break you up I know, but you can still stop the pucnhes with grappling...
    "Training = pain." - I said that.

    PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.
  3. Master Jason Khard is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 3:47pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MMA is a fad. Soon it will cease to exists, many of them are just unskilled brawlers who wouldn't know Kata to Sirloin Steak. A true Karate practioner would have a better chance of winning these so called No Hold Barred Tournaments if our dynamic and integrated use of our hands, feet, and grappling is second to none.

    A blow to the knee will hardly down an aggresive opponent, a sharp kick to the stomach or face is much more affective. My two cents.
  4. Stold2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 3:52pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ^ HAHAGAGHAHSGASHSGHSAGSHHSAGA
  5. Boyd is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 4:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    *cries*

    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon
  6. DanSevering is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 4:14pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:
    okay sorry my bad - I see what you mean now.

    however like you say, you can trap in boxing in a sense - but the ref will break you up I know, but you can still stop the pucnhes with grappling...
    [quote]
    it's not really grappling, while trapping is when you grab someone for leverage and control while they're not grabbing you.


    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>
  7. DanSevering is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 4:18pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MMA is a fad. Soon it will cease to exists, many of them are just unskilled brawlers who wouldn't know Kata to Sirloin Steak. A true Karate practioner would have a better chance of winning these so called No Hold Barred Tournaments if our dynamic and integrated use of our hands, feet, and grappling is second to none.

    A blow to the knee will hardly down an aggresive opponent, a sharp kick to the stomach or face is much more affective. My two cents.
    Fact is, strikers fare poorly in NHB matches. It's hard to kick without getting trapped and taken down, or clinched, while once you get clinched or taken down, you'd better know grappling.
  8. DanSevering is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 4:20pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:
    okay sorry my bad - I see what you mean now.
    however like you say, you can trap in boxing in a sense - but the ref will break you up I know, but you can still stop the pucnhes with grappling...
    it's not really grappling, while trapping is when you grab someone for leverage and control while they're not grabbing you. Mainly the boxing-clinch is a loophole to let someone rest.


    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>


    <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>
  9. J Zen is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 4:38pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ---A true Karate practioner would have a better chance of winning these so called No Hold Barred Tournaments if our dynamic and integrated use of our hands, feet, and grappling is second to none.---

    Like how Ishihara the Kyokushin karate expert got dominated by Royce Gracie like a child despite that fact that Royce was a terrible striker and wasn't even considered that great in grappling skills?

    Karate (or Kyokushin to be more specific) is one of the top striking MA discipline, no doubt about that, but it in no way has the level of grappling element in its art that would scratch the surface of some grappling-oriented styles such as judo, juijitsu or wrestling, let alone to be considered "second to no one".
  10. DanSevering is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 4:47pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Obviously; there's no way to strike someone without first coming in trapping-range, and then once they trap or block you, they can move in for grappling and it's all over since you can't karate-strike anyone who's got you in a groundfight-- and is better at it.

    However if you can likewise foil the trapping, then a striker can use this advantage; it's a matter of knowing your enemy and yourself, but also how to strategically work these differences to best advantage.
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