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  1. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 7:16pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Fun with P.A.T. training (TBM, Ronin...)

    Could use a little help on this one guys. Here's the situation. For the last several months I've been doing law enforcement training. Night classes on LE, First Aid, etc., followed by long weekends doing firearms training (you may remember my thread about it). And all that while working full time. And then I moved. So I haven't trained (physically) in months. Anyhoo...

    I am trying to transition to a career in LE or Corrections. This means I am having to take several varied Physical Aptitude Tests, mostly consisting of sit-ups, push-ups and running. I just took and passed the first one with max points (yea me!) but now have a tougher one coming up. I need some advice on how to get my time up (er, "down" I guess) on the mile and half run and how to prep for a 300 meter sprint. Keep in mind cardio has always been my weak point and I hate running.

    The first one was ridiculously easy, though I still struggled with the run. You had to be able to do at least 12 sit-ups with a max of 18 in a minute. You had to do 15 push-ups with a max of 23. Needless to say I easily maxed out on both of those. For the run, I was initially told you need to be under 16 minutes on a 1.5 mile to pass. So, when I first found out (about 2 weeks before the test) I went down to try and run it on the treadmill. Came out at like 19 minutes! Heh. I thought I was screwed since I was leaving on a 5 day road trip. When I got back I think I had exactly 7 days before the test. I started running every morning and eventually got down to 15:30 or so. The day of the test I ran it in 15:11 and (I'm not sure whether to be proud of this next fact or frightened) came in SECOND. I'm sure 15:11, though quite the accomplishment for me, still sucks and I can't believe only one person out of the 12 or so that were there ran it faster. I also had been misinformed. You had only needed to run it in under 17 something to pass and under 16:33 to get the max points.

    Now I have another one in a little less than two weeks. It's a bit tougher. You have to do the 1.5 mile in under 14:31 just to pass. You also have to do more sit-ups and push-ups. I'll still have no problems making the minimums on those (30 and 21, respectively) but I may struggle with the maximums a bit. I need the points though since I figure I'm barely going to make the minimum on the run.
    The max sit-ups is 38 in one minute. Now, I can do 38 sit-ups in one set with no problem, but I'm a bit concerned about doing them in under a minute. I haven't timed myself on them yet. The max for push-ups is 35, no time limit AFAIK. This is a problem. In a single set of push-ups, without stopping, I start to fail at around 30. Currently I can't do 35 straight without putting a knee down or something which would end the test.

    As for the runs, I have no idea how to go about training to run 300 meters (and can somebody convert that into feet or a mile fraction or something?). You have to do it in under 71 seconds. Is that fast? Easy? I have no earthly idea. Also, what's the best way to continue trying to better my time on the 1.5 mile? I ran it faster on the track than I do on the treadmill, but will be confined to practicing on the tradmill until the test. I've been running it every morning. Is that enough? Too much? It worked on getting my time under 16...

    Anyway, a possible job (Police Officer) is on the line here. Any help would be appreciated.
  2. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 7:34pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt W.
    The max sit-ups is 38 in one minute. Now, I can do 38 sit-ups in one set with no problem, but I'm a bit concerned about doing them in under a minute.
    Have a friend time it for you if you can, or just get in the position, wait for the clock to hit the 12, and crank them out as fast as you can then look at the clock once you hit the max. If you have an area available, do decline situps (where you're on a decline bench, legs up in the air and your bodys angled downwards), those babies will strengthen you up pretty quick if you supplement them with regular ones.

    Also, once they start, go full out as hard as you can till you hit the crunch point, then pace yourself as they say the time limits. If you have 25 done by the 30 second mark, you know to do about 1 every 2 seconds to get the max. If you can crank out 30 in about 30 seconds, you'll be golden as you'll have all the time in the world to struggle up those last 8.

    The max for push-ups is 35, no time limit AFAIK. This is a problem. In a single set of push-ups, without stopping, I start to fail at around 30. Currently I can't do 35 straight without putting a knee down or something which would end the test.
    How do they grade the pushups, is it chest to fist or just break the plane of your arms? If it's touch the fist, practice with a friend or a tennis ball and just barely touch that sucker, going as fast as you can as the faster you go the momentum alone will help a lot. If it's break the plane, watch your technique in a mirror and only just break the plane with each pushup so you'll have more energy and not work as hard. Keep your upper body tight too, you'd be surprised at how much of a difference that makes. For practicing them, you can try decline pushups (feet up on a bench or something similar), and work on whenever you rest, stay in the up position and DO NOT put your knee down. If you take a few deep breaths and rest in the up position for a few seconds for the harder ones, you'll get at least a few more. Time yourself doing these as well, just in case.

    As for the runs, I have no idea how to go about training to run 300 meters (and can somebody convert that into feet or a mile fraction or something?). You have to do it in under 71 seconds.
    300 meters is about 328 yards, or 984 feet. That's a pretty long distance to cover, it's about 1/3 of a mile and considering few people can run a mile in under 4 minutes, I'm not sure if that sounds right. For whatever it is, it sounds like they want you to sprint a certain distance. Ever play football or basketball in high school and have to do those dashes up and down the gym, touching lines? Try those.

    Also, what's the best way to continue trying to better my time on the 1.5 mile? I ran it faster on the track than I do on the treadmill, but will be confined to practicing on the tradmill until the test. I've been running it every morning. Is that enough? Too much? It worked on getting my time under 16...
    The treadmill will help a lot if you can't get anything else. You should wear a watch or use the timer on the machine to pace yourself. If you can use one of those little clickers that let you know about how far you've run, that's an added bonus as well, as then you know how much time you have left and how much ground you have to cover. Basically work at a speed that's just a bit on the uncomfortable side, and expect to not have fun while running on the treadmill and you can have a decent time. It works for some guys to add distance as well, but if you concentrate on speed, you should be alright. Just control your breathing with your footwork (inhale on the left through your nose, right, exhale through your mouth on the left, right) and you should be in great shape.

    Hope that helps :thumbsup: In return, I ask that you please not beat me with your nightstick.
  3. PO9 is offline

    10th level Superlesson Grandmaster

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 7:57pm


     Style: Currently Inactive

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For the push ups, are you allowed to 'rest' by raising your butt or arching your back such that only your hands and feet are stil the only things touching? If so, go to 25, raise your butt count to ten and crank out about ten more, repeat (maybe only doing five or so) until you have a healthy number. This is what we do in the army to pace ourselves (we have 2 minutes to do as many as possible).

    For the situps, you gotta practice exploding up and then relaxing (so you're not wasting muscle energy) on the way down. Furthermore des your head need to touch on the down or just your shoulder blades. If just the shoulder blades, practice going down until they just touch then explode back up. I can get over 80 in 2 minutes using this technique. I'm still not fast enough to do 1/sec though.
    Who, for Pete’s sake! Is opposing science? In fact, we want MORE science by CRITICALLY ANALIZING the evidence-Connie Morris, Kansas State BOE (bolding and underlining part of original quote, red is my emphasis)


    As long as you try to treat your subjective experiences as if they were objective experiences, you will continue to be confounded by people who disagree with you.-some guy on an internet messageboard
  4. lwflee is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 8:10pm


     Style: Sleeping / Studying

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu

    300 meters is about 328 yards, or 984 feet. That's a pretty long distance to cover, it's about 1/3 of a mile and considering few people can run a mile in under 4 minutes, I'm not sure if that sounds right. For whatever it is, it sounds like they want you to sprint a certain distance. Ever play football or basketball in high school and have to do those dashes up and down the gym, touching lines? Try those.
    300m in under 71 seconds is quite normal actually. A reasonably fit person can probably run 400m in about 70s(?).

    As for the 1.5 mile, hitting 16 mins should be fairly easy. If you have access to a track, get a person to pace you. Have him run at 14:00+ mins and you just concentrate on keeping the distance constant.

    Edit: I just realized that you had to hit 14:30. Anyway, that's reasonable too.

    And yea, try to push yourself a little bit more during each run.
    Last edited by lwflee; 1/24/2005 8:41pm at .
  5. Boomstick is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 8:21pm


     Style: Mixed/Freestyle Kickboxin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay... first off, 300 meters is roughly 3/16 ths of a mile. The 1600 or four times around the average track is a mile... so the 300 should be 3/4 ths the way around the track. Thus, it is pretty simple for the pace... take the first straight away and aim for 25 second, take the turn in 20, and sprint the last straight in about 15. 71 seconds is a lot of time when you are talking about being one of America's Finest. Good for you, but move those legs... I also am looking into LE and have running as one of my big obstacles to overcome this spring, but High School kids can run a 400 meter in like 50 seconds, so 20 more seconds for 100 yards less isn't that tough. I used to do the 400 in 62-67 seconds. I would even recommend trying the 400 and aim for the 71, then just cut it down in the weeks leading up and work on the last 3/4ths of the run.

    As for the 1.5 mile run... this is the bear... The gold standard for the mile is something like 6-7 minutes per mile. Again, the 14:31 is about the time or more than the average, and 800 meters shorter. In comparison, the top runners in the world do the miles closer to 5 minutes per mile. My best time in HS was something like 14 minutes for the two mile... It is really just a matter of buidling up to it and pacing yourself. Also, speed is obviously somewhat of an issue but neither of those times are demanding. What you should aim for is getting the 1.5 miles done first, then increasing your speed. Working on speed primarily will get you at the front of the pack then left on the ground with a lap to go.

    Lastly don't run every bloody day, at least at first. You wouldn't do squats every day, why would you run every day for a mile and a half. Yes you can do it more often but build up to that. Go every other day... Monday do the sprints for like 30 minute, Wednesday do the distance run once, Friday do the sprint again for like 30 minutes. Then the Next week switch it up. Do that for 2-3 weeks, then if you want start doing sprints for 30 minutes one day, distance the next, sprints for 30, distance, etc.

    Hope this helps, if not, me and you are going to be draging it come test time...
    btw, where are you looking to serve? I am looking at the DC Capitol Police.
  6. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 8:23pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lwflee
    300m in under 71 seconds is quite normal actually. A reasonably fit person can probably run 400m in about 70s(?).
    I suppose so. I checked it out compared to Olympic sprinters, and a lot of these guys are running the 200 in under 15-25 seconds on average.
  7. Boomstick is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 8:27pm


     Style: Mixed/Freestyle Kickboxin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
    I suppose so. I checked it out compared to Olympic sprinters, and a lot of these guys are running the 200 in under 15-25 seconds on average.
    I'd like to meet the man who does the 200 m in 15 seconds... and would like to know what planet he is from and what form of drugs he is on and what sort of teleportation/levetation he is using to do it with...

    According to the site below, the best 100m time is 9.79 seconds, so even if some human could duplicate that time... you'd be looking at a 19.xx at best

    http://abc.net.au/olympics/2004/prof...ricegreene.htm
    Last edited by Boomstick; 1/24/2005 8:32pm at .
  8. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 8:38pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomstick
    I'd like to meet the man who does the 200 m in 15 seconds... and would like to know what planet he is from and what form of drugs he is on and what sort of teleportation/levetation he is using to do it with...

    According to the site below, the best 100m time is 9.79 seconds, so even if some human could duplicate that time... you'd be looking at a 19.xx at best

    http://abc.net.au/olympics/2004/prof...ricegreene.htm
    Here's where I got my info:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/usa/Shawn+Crawford/1725579

    Most of his are at about 19, I think I averaged it out with his 100m :P As you can tell, my math sucks today, I think the algebra class and the Percoset are the cause :P
  9. Equipoise is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 10:06pm

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     Style: Chemical Assistance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe I missed it, how long do you have to prep?

    I'd say work on your forearms with weights, aswell as your triceps for the pushups. Your tris are the most important for powering you through a pushup or bench press. Your forearms will help stabilize the motion aswell. Make sure to evenly work your flexors as well as your extensors. Most people's extensors are underworked and as a result cause stress on the metacarpal in resistance exercises due to the flexors dominating. If you want a routine with this, I can whip one together for you also.

    The situps shouldn't be a problem.

    The sprint- MWF, Do 3 1/4 mile wind sprints, with jogging half a mile in between each, and then walk another halfmile to cool down. This is quick and will help your sprint and work the muscles associated with running; legs, biceps, etc. This will also give a nice jolt to your cardio. This should take you maybe an hour to an hr 15 min tops for this and it's simple. You'll be achieveing alot in a little amount of time.
    Last edited by Equipoise; 1/24/2005 10:08pm at .
  10. punchingdummy is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/24/2005 11:13pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dear Matt W,

    I cannot over emphasize this - THE STANDARDS YOU NEED TO MEET ARE VERY LOW. If you are an average, healthy male, there is only ONE reason you cannot exceed the standards: self-limiting expectations. Kick yourself in the ass, grab a hold of your gonads, and do it. Really. Not trying to sound like dick here but you really need to understand that there is no excuse for not doing well on these tests. If you reached down and found a pair, then read on....

    First, raise your expectations. You should not be training to max these scores. You should be training to go well over the max.


    Running. The average time for a 1.5 mile run in the Marine infantry is about 11:00 minutes. That is average. Go hang with Poidog's (FR) or Hawkeye's (Ranger) units and it will be faster. Punchingdummy was not a fast runner, but here is what he would do for to train for a test (modified to fit the 1.5 mile test).

    1. Shock the system. Run EVERY DAY for 5 straight days. Do not time yourself. Your goal is to finish every run (and do not walk any of it). Even if you are as slow as grandma, just finish. Get your body and your mind used to finishing every run. After you finish the 5 runs, reward your body with at least three days of rest. Stretch lightly each day, but rest the legs.

    2. Starting day 8 you should wear a watch. Your #1 goal on every run is to beat the previous run (of the same distance) by at least one second. Sometimes it might only be a second. Sometimes it will be 30 seconds. But after a few weeks, you WILL improve. A lot.

    3. Run TWO mile runs at least three times a week. Running farther than you need to go on the test will build up endurance and mental confidence. Remember #2. Also remember to NEVER quit (even if you are puking).

    4. Once a week, you will run shorter distances. This can be a 1 mile run at your fastest speed, windsprints or roadwork. The objective is to go short, but go hard. really hard.

    5. If at all possible, find a training buddy who is faster than you. Invaluable.

    6. Rest a minimum of three days before the test. It is the rest which makes you stronger. Make sure your body is rested (as well as trying to maintain good nutrition and hydration).


    Pushups - Stop being a *****! :5baby: By way of comparison, the MINIMUM number of push-ups for a 40 year-old male on the TSK blackbelt test is 75. Good elbows bending at least 90 degrees, touching chest, full extension push ups. Actually, some guys have a problem with this. But there is no excuse for someone who wants to be a LEO to pump out 50 or so good ones. Here are a few ideas.

    1. Start the cycle with max sets. Actually, about 3 - 4 max sets. Your first will obviously be your best and give you a good guage as to where you are. Train to failure on each set.

    If you have access to weights, then sets 2-4 can be substituted with flat bench presses.

    (BTW, a great weight routine is to do roughly 75% your max for no more than 4 or 5 reps. With no more than 15 seconds rest, drop about 10 pounds and repeat. With no more than 15 seconds rest, drop about 10 pounds and repeat. With no more than 15 seconds rest, drop about 10 pounds and repeat. Keep going. You get the picture. Be forewarned that when you are near the end and severely struggling with an empty weight bar is when someone will walk in abd laugh at you, and it's usually a female)

    2. Day two are 10 rep sets. Do 10 sets of 10 perfect pushups, resting no more than 1 minute between sets. If you can do more than 10 sets, then do them (and you will have no problem with the fitness test)

    3. Day three is a rest day.

    4. Start the cycle over again. But DO NOT skip the rest days.

    5. Since you have limited time to prepare, don't **** around with inclines, declines, etc.

    6. Make sure you have no less than two full days of rest prior to the test. Light stretching, but no push-ups.


    Situps - What can I say? 38 sit-ups in a minute is a joke. 60 in a minute is very good (and, again, is the minimun standard for a 40 year-old on the TSK blackbelt test). By way of comparison, 120 or more in two minutes and you start to float into to stud range. The "more" is the Marine Corps PT stud range.

    Unfortunately, there are no good short cuts.

    1. Do two sets of MAX sit-ups in one minute. Follow this with a max set of leg lifts and a max set of crunches.

    2. Repeat #1 everyday.

    3. Rest at least two days before the test.


    I understand that time may be an issue. There is only so much you can do if there are only two weeks to prepare. But the biggest thing you need to understand is that you CAN.

    As the saying goes, whether you think you can or you can't, you're right.

    Nowget off the couch and start training! :walk:
    Last edited by punchingdummy; 1/24/2005 11:16pm at .
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