228348 Bullies, 4597 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 41 to 50 of 65
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 67 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,592

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 6:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who is FM.....Oh thats me I think. :)

    Power lifting:
    Yeah I've read similar for power lifting. But those guys are lifting HUGE weight for very low reps. That does put massive stress on joints.
    I have read that unless your chosen sport is power lifting, then you should not train in this way as there is just too many injury risks.

    I don't count doing compound exercises and power lifting as the same thing though. Although a few of the lifts are the same, the weight is much, much lower.

    Its true that compound exercies fatigue you much more, and require much more recovery time. But you take this into account when training.

    For instance, a program doing mainly compound training could be (this is one I've used):

    Workout 1
    Chest, Shoulders, Calves
    Dips 2 x 9
    Incline Ball Press 1 x 8
    Shoulder Press 2 x 9
    Calves 1 x 15
    Side Bends 1 x 15
    Abs

    Workout 2
    Back, Legs
    Chin Ups 2 x 9
    Squat 2 x 10
    Stiff Legged Deadlift 2 x 10
    Shrug 1 x 10
    Grip Work 1 x 10

    (warming up, going to failure on each set. Failure counting as inability to maintain good form on rep)

    And thats it for the week. If I tried to do the same amount of sets you've listed in your post above using compound exercises - I'd drop dead!

    (note: people generally freak when they see so little volume/sets in a program)

    Isolation exercises are designed to work the muscles....um, in isolation. :)
    Isolation exercises were designed by bodybuilders for stage presence ie. look how big my left deltoid is! :) They are more for asthetics.
    They can also be used to rehab a muscle thats lost strength (...after its injury has healed of course)

    Veteran trainers that have trained for years on the compound movements (main ones being squat, deadlift, bench press/dip) and are lifting huge weights might consider isolation exercises to give them that bit extra. The problem is many young or novice lifters (and most people are novices, me included. I'm talking about the amount you lift, not years lifting) use them before they have built up the poundages on the big lift and built up enough to the point where isolation exercises need to be considered.

    Its hilarious to see 170 pounders in the gym doing 3 different types of bicep curls for 4 sets to 'build their lagging arms'. Their whole body is lagging. Build up to huge weight in the squat/deadlift and see your whole body grow.

    (as a side note: I'm 6'2" 195lbs at 10% bodyfat. I'm not at the point where I'd need to build up certain parts.)


    I'm not sure how isolation exercises can translate to real world strength. Your not building up the strength of the whole body as a unit, your leaving weak links - important for martial arts.

    By the way, I hope this post doesn't come across as condescending. From your posts I've seen you know a lot about the iron game. I've tried to answer 'cause you asked!

    cheers,

    --------
    What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
    --------

    Edited by - fingerormoon? on February 17 2003 17:37:05
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  2. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    8,049

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 7:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No worries.

    As you said people freak looking at your low set count, which I did. My questions about it center around the fact that most of the exercises you mention are included in the sort of workout program I do, however at only 1-2 sets per major muscle group per week, with the exception of arms and shoulders which get a cursory worked out on a couple. I find it hard to see how such low levels will allow much in the way of muscle growth, even going to failure like you should most of the time. You need to breakdown muscle to build bigger/stronger muscle and with so few sets I'm having a hard time imagining that occurring on a large scale.

    Additionally I only see dead lifts as counting as compound.

    I do think that compound exercises are probably the best way to start out but I think after awhile you're not getting the work you need. Some should probably stay as well (ex. power cleans, even though I've never been able to do them right and am on the verge of giving them up).

    As far as working to integrate it all for a MA perspective, I actually talked to my instructor about that awhile back (I've got some concerns re: getting muscle bound) and his perspective was that as long as you stretch a lot and when actually training, as opposed to weight training, you work as a whole and keep your technique clean you ought to be fine. I guess an analogy would be running for cardio improvement. You're not actually doing anything from an MA slant but it works in when you need it.


    PS I'm at the point where I'm pretty sure that I'd lose a fair bit of strength going to a program such as your's, which puts a bias on my remarks.



    **You're all a-holes**
  3. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    9,620

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 7:51pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Has anyone noticed that this has become a very helpful and informative thread?

    Let me see what I can do to restore the forum to its natural state...

    GrAPling ROOLz U BAYTCH!

    nO wY Dood Fa-JinG your eyes!1!

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  4. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,592

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 7:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    heh heh. Yeah I know I'm coming from a totally different mindset.

    It's abbreviated training. Look at it this way.
    You know that what you do works. But how do you know your muscle gain isn't stagnating because of TOO MUCH volume.

    How do you know that if you did less, you wouldn't get exactly the same results? Or, you wouldn't get better resutls?

    Last year I got really into reading about the 'history of the Iron Game'.

    Before steroids and supplement companies took over, people trained like this. You can see pictures of guys from the 20-40 that are quite big.

    Then the drugs/supplements/magazines got onto the scene and changed things. Guys that were roided to the eyeballs began listing programs in magazines with huge volumes (not mentioning the only way they could work for the majority is if your on the same drugs they are). The magazines recommended you take [insert supplement] to look like this (their brand of course!). And thats where we still are today.

    Doing more sets bites into recovery time. Less time for the muscle to grow. For a natural athlete recovery time has been heavily underestimated.

    To my definition of compound (ie more than one muscle group).
    I'll be real general here but:

    Dips (chest, tricep, shoulder)
    Incline Press (chest, tricep, shoulder)
    Shoulder Press (shoulders - all shoulder heads)
    Chin Ups (back, biceps, grip)
    Squat (quads, hamstrings, lower back, some shoulder and upper back)
    Stiff Legged Deadlift (hamstring, lower back, upper back, shoulder)

    Check out:

    www.hardgainer.com
    www.cyberpump.com (although needs membership now)
    www.naturalstrength.com
    www.mikementzer.com

    --------
    What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
    --------

    Edited by - fingerormoon? on February 17 2003 19:04:26

    Edited by - fingerormoon? on February 17 2003 19:11:40
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  5. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,592

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 7:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you Wastrel. :)

    --------
    What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
    --------
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  6. shotokan is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    79

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 8:09pm


     Style: JUDO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GOOD ARTICLE ON HIGH INTENSITY TRAINING

    http://www.sover.net/~timw/faq07.htm
  7. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,592

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 8:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah this is a good one. Read a few years ago.
    Everyone should be made to read this when starting to weight train.

    I should probably read again to see how far off track I've wandered. :)



    --------
    What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
    --------
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  8. DanSevering is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    320

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 8:54pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look, this guy just wanted to gain some fucking weight to fill his physique, not enter the goddamned Mr. Universe competition. A few functional strength exercises with progressive resistance and short rest rest, in addition to a reasonable balanced low-protein diet and some basic vitamin and mineral supplements, are all that's required for this purpose. I know my job! Getting in shape is much simpler than it sounds, once you know what you're doing-- it's the over-complication and junk-science that sabotages you.

    He doesn't need to spend hours toning up and fine-tuning every single muscle like some world champion athlete or bodybuilder.

    Slaving for hours daily in the gym and gulping down mega-supplements and crap are a sure way to crash and burn big-time.

    KISS-- Keep It Simple, Sk8r! :D
  9. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    3,592

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 9:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you for repeating what was said in a pissed off tone. That makes it all clearer.


    --------
    What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
    --------

    Edited by - fingerormoon? on February 17 2003 20:02:16
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  10. DanSevering is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    320

    Posted On:
    2/17/2003 10:54pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You're most welcome! :-)
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 67 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.