Anyone know the best way to gain weight?

[FingerorMoon?]

Who is FM.....Oh thats me I think. :)

Power lifting:
Yeah I've read similar for power lifting. But those guys are lifting HUGE weight for very low reps. That does put massive stress on joints.
I have read that unless your chosen sport is power lifting, then you should not train in this way as there is just too many injury risks.

I don't count doing compound exercises and power lifting as the same thing though. Although a few of the lifts are the same, the weight is much, much lower.

Its true that compound exercies fatigue you much more, and require much more recovery time. But you take this into account when training.

For instance, a program doing mainly compound training could be (this is one I've used):

Workout 1
Chest, Shoulders, Calves
Dips 2 x 9
Incline Ball Press 1 x 8
Shoulder Press 2 x 9
Calves 1 x 15
Side Bends 1 x 15
Abs

Workout 2
Back, Legs
Chin Ups 2 x 9
Squat 2 x 10
Stiff Legged Deadlift 2 x 10
Shrug 1 x 10
Grip Work 1 x 10

(warming up, going to failure on each set. Failure counting as inability to maintain good form on rep)

And thats it for the week. If I tried to do the same amount of sets you've listed in your post above using compound exercises - I'd drop dead!

(note: people generally freak when they see so little volume/sets in a program)

Isolation exercises are designed to work the muscles....um, in isolation. :)
Isolation exercises were designed by bodybuilders for stage presence ie. look how big my left deltoid is! :) They are more for asthetics.
They can also be used to rehab a muscle thats lost strength (...after its injury has healed of course)

Veteran trainers that have trained for years on the compound movements (main ones being squat, deadlift, bench press/dip) and are lifting huge weights might consider isolation exercises to give them that bit extra. The problem is many young or novice lifters (and most people are novices, me included. I'm talking about the amount you lift, not years lifting) use them before they have built up the poundages on the big lift and built up enough to the point where isolation exercises need to be considered.

Its hilarious to see 170 pounders in the gym doing 3 different types of bicep curls for 4 sets to 'build their lagging arms'. Their whole body is lagging. Build up to huge weight in the squat/deadlift and see your whole body grow.

(as a side note: I'm 6'2" 195lbs at 10% bodyfat. I'm not at the point where I'd need to build up certain parts.)


I'm not sure how isolation exercises can translate to real world strength. Your not building up the strength of the whole body as a unit, your leaving weak links - important for martial arts.

By the way, I hope this post doesn't come across as condescending. From your posts I've seen you know a lot about the iron game. I've tried to answer 'cause you asked!

cheers,

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What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
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Edited by - fingerormoon? on February 17 2003 17:37:05

[Dochter]

No worries.

As you said people freak looking at your low set count, which I did. My questions about it center around the fact that most of the exercises you mention are included in the sort of workout program I do, however at only 1-2 sets per major muscle group per week, with the exception of arms and shoulders which get a cursory worked out on a couple. I find it hard to see how such low levels will allow much in the way of muscle growth, even going to failure like you should most of the time. You need to breakdown muscle to build bigger/stronger muscle and with so few sets I'm having a hard time imagining that occurring on a large scale.

Additionally I only see dead lifts as counting as compound.

I do think that compound exercises are probably the best way to start out but I think after awhile you're not getting the work you need. Some should probably stay as well (ex. power cleans, even though I've never been able to do them right and am on the verge of giving them up).

As far as working to integrate it all for a MA perspective, I actually talked to my instructor about that awhile back (I've got some concerns re: getting muscle bound) and his perspective was that as long as you stretch a lot and when actually training, as opposed to weight training, you work as a whole and keep your technique clean you ought to be fine. I guess an analogy would be running for cardio improvement. You're not actually doing anything from an MA slant but it works in when you need it.


PS I'm at the point where I'm pretty sure that I'd lose a fair bit of strength going to a program such as your's, which puts a bias on my remarks.



**You're all a-holes**

[The Wastrel]

Has anyone noticed that this has become a very helpful and informative thread?

Let me see what I can do to restore the forum to its natural state...

GrAPling ROOLz U BAYTCH!

nO wY Dood Fa-JinG your eyes!1!

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

[FingerorMoon?]

heh heh. Yeah I know I'm coming from a totally different mindset.

It's abbreviated training. Look at it this way.
You know that what you do works. But how do you know your muscle gain isn't stagnating because of TOO MUCH volume.

How do you know that if you did less, you wouldn't get exactly the same results? Or, you wouldn't get better resutls?

Last year I got really into reading about the 'history of the Iron Game'.

Before steroids and supplement companies took over, people trained like this. You can see pictures of guys from the 20-40 that are quite big.

Then the drugs/supplements/magazines got onto the scene and changed things. Guys that were roided to the eyeballs began listing programs in magazines with huge volumes (not mentioning the only way they could work for the majority is if your on the same drugs they are). The magazines recommended you take [insert supplement] to look like this (their brand of course!). And thats where we still are today.

Doing more sets bites into recovery time. Less time for the muscle to grow. For a natural athlete recovery time has been heavily underestimated.

To my definition of compound (ie more than one muscle group).
I'll be real general here but:

Dips (chest, tricep, shoulder)
Incline Press (chest, tricep, shoulder)
Shoulder Press (shoulders - all shoulder heads)
Chin Ups (back, biceps, grip)
Squat (quads, hamstrings, lower back, some shoulder and upper back)
Stiff Legged Deadlift (hamstring, lower back, upper back, shoulder)

Check out:

www.hardgainer.com
www.cyberpump.com (although needs membership now)
www.naturalstrength.com
www.mikementzer.com

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What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
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Edited by - fingerormoon? on February 17 2003 19:04:26

Edited by - fingerormoon? on February 17 2003 19:11:40

[FingerorMoon?]

Thank you Wastrel. :)

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What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
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[shotokan]

GOOD ARTICLE ON HIGH INTENSITY TRAINING

http://www.sover.net/~timw/faq07.htm

[FingerorMoon?]

Yeah this is a good one. Read a few years ago.
Everyone should be made to read this when starting to weight train.

I should probably read again to see how far off track I've wandered. :)



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What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
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[DanSevering]

Look, this guy just wanted to gain some fucking weight to fill his physique, not enter the goddamned Mr. Universe competition. A few functional strength exercises with progressive resistance and short rest rest, in addition to a reasonable balanced low-protein diet and some basic vitamin and mineral supplements, are all that's required for this purpose. I know my job! Getting in shape is much simpler than it sounds, once you know what you're doing-- it's the over-complication and junk-science that sabotages you.

He doesn't need to spend hours toning up and fine-tuning every single muscle like some world champion athlete or bodybuilder.

Slaving for hours daily in the gym and gulping down mega-supplements and crap are a sure way to crash and burn big-time.

KISS-- Keep It Simple, Sk8r! :D

[FingerorMoon?]

Thank you for repeating what was said in a pissed off tone. That makes it all clearer.


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What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
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Edited by - fingerormoon? on February 17 2003 20:02:16

[DanSevering]

You're most welcome! :-)