All Out of Bubblegum
Posted On:1/21/2005 5:36pm
I was always under the impression inosanto took over the name to keep people from dragging it through the mud by teaching shitty kung fu...
There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
Taking a break
Posted On:1/21/2005 5:49pm
Originally Posted by Kickbox
And here is what I find upsetting. How can you say you follow the art created by Bruce Lee
The art created by bruce lee was Jun Fan.
The philosophy he espoused was JKD.
Its very important not to get that confused.
Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989
Posted On:1/21/2005 6:05pm
Style: Kung Fu
Originally Posted by Kickbox
Well I have learned that Dan Inosanto of JKD fame makes over $1000000. per year from his JKD operation. The report claims that he has over 250 instructors paying $2000 each year plus mega bucks from seminars and JKD gear.
Any chance we can get a link to this supposed report. Otherwise it's hearsay.
Beyond that, I have to agree with everyone's comments about the concepts v. nucleus group (or what ever they've morphed into). And we should note that Dan was there for the forming of the Nucleus, but after a while graciously bowed out.
As for Bruce's family, first of all, I think it's interesting to speculate where things might have ended up if Brandon had not died so tragically young. And there's definitely no love lost on the Lee/Cadwell side of the fence for Inasanto. Note who is glaringly absent from "Dragon:The Bruce Lee Story."
Last edited by Matt Bernius; 1/21/2005 6:11pm at .
Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
Kali, & what ever works
Renaissance Martial Arts
Posted On:1/21/2005 8:37pm
Regarding the statement about 250 instructors paying $2000 each, I beleive the info is incorrect. The million dollar gross must have been based on projected figures of 250 students paying $2000 each at the Inosanto Academy. Just goes to show you you can never trust an angry housewife.
For the other info Go to www.forumco/pauljbax/. Locate the thread with the transcript of Bruce talking to Daniel Lee. Bruce questions Dan's ability and tells Daniel that he is not pleased with the way Dan teaches because Dan tries to break everything down into drills.. Within months Bruce closed the Chinatown school where Dan was the assistant instructor in 1971.. Dan has three certificates in JKD/Junfan gung fu. All three certificates have the same exact date. Dan was not suppose to continue to teach JKD because Bruce told him not to but informed him that he could have a small backyard training group of no more than 6 training partners and he was not to claim that he was teaching JKD. That is why Dan could not teach JKD but only his JKD concept. Dan called Bruce's JKD "theatrical JKD" first and then came up with the name "Jun Fan". Jerry Poteet , Steve Golden, Daniel Lee and Ted Wong would not train with Dan after Bruce left the school. Dan never had a fight and was labeled by the Ed Parker kenpo black belts as a poor fighter. Just thought you would like to know the real story before you complain about other JKD instructors certified by Ted Wong or Jerry Poteet. They have made no money from JKD while Dan has received all the fame and money. Do some research on other forums.
Last edited by Kickbox; 1/24/2005 8:25pm at .
Reason: Information was incorrect
Posted On:1/21/2005 9:05pm
From what I've read of Bruce Lee, he had a big ego (perhaps deservedly - he certainly had cleaner technique then me :), and setting arbitrary limits on how big someone's class could be or what size of school they could have, that sounds like him.
Also, for the record, even should you assert with proof that Dan Inosanto = bad, it's still a leap to say that makes someone else good...
All I can think of when I read these innumerable JKD threads is what it says in Bruce Lee's book:
"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that", then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it"
Bruce Lee's fame, and the money to be made from his name, swept through the community of his students, corrupting even the sincere by association.
All these people would have been so much better off to make their own way and mention Bruce Lee only in passing....
Posted On:1/22/2005 8:32am
Dan Inosanto was able to make his own way as a FMA instructor, then Indonesian and Thai arts, then shoot wrestling then BJJ. What the rest of Bruce Lee's students are saying is that Dan sacrificed the JKD that Bruce taught them for all the things that Dan was interested in promoting. See, Jimmy Lee was Bruce's partner and he was the person that Bruce would have put in charge but James(Jimmy) Lee died of cancer. When Jimmy died Bruce lost interest in teaching . Dan Inosanto wanted to be the assistant so Bruce turned the Chinatown school over to him until Bruce's other students started complaining that Dan was trying to make JKD like a high school gym class with 5 minutes of this and 10 minutes of that. Dan was no fighter and so he didn't understand how to make JKD work. Bruce wanted each student to get personal instruction so he limited class size to 6. One book quotes Dan Inosanto as saying "I couldn't do JKD like Bruce Lee" so he just borrored the concept and applied it to kali. So kali had fighting at each distance or range, it had weapons and Dan inovated new training methods like focus pad drills and other drills. He did just what Bruce told him to do, absorb what was useful and discard the rest. Bruce's other students agree that what Dan discarded was the JKD that Bruce taught them.
The jeet kune do could only be taught to a small group of personal students like sparring partners and the new JKD concept kali which Dan Inosanto designed with his partner Richard Bustillo after Bruce Lee died, could be taught to the masses. Richard and Dan were partners until Paula Inosanto got greedy and broke up the team. Once the seminar offers rolled in Inosanto came up with "Jun Fan" as the new name for JKD. That way students could practice what Dan remembered about the jeet kune do that Bruce taught him and they would not get it confused with Guro Dan's new JKD Concept arts. Remember that Bruce's other students practiced the fighting art of jeet kune do while Dan didn't like the contact of jeet kune do sparring, he was too small and timid. Same thing happened to Dan when he was a black belt in kenpo, no fighting because Dan thought it was too rough. So what has been sold over the years is Guro Dan Inosanto's perfectly useful JKDConcept which is a blend of FMA,BJJ,Muay Thai, Silat and whatever was fun. What has been lost over the years is Bruce Lee's fighting art of jeet kune do.
It's a shame that some people now call Bruce Lee's jeet kune do ...MCJKD and think that Dan Inosanto's JKDConcept is the real deal. And it's a shame that Bruce Lee's widow and daughter, his own flesh and blood are now called the bad guys while Dan Inosanto, who never had a fight in his life and in no way represents Bruce Lee's fighting art of jeet kune do is the good guy. This is the perfect case of Bullshido.
Posted On:1/22/2005 12:14pm
Bruce Lee's Jun Fan Gung Fu is the "JKD" that you want to be taught. That's fine if that's all you want to learn. Try fighting with it, you'll probably get your ass kicked. The things Lee did worked well for him because of his attributes and ability. Personally, I think Bruce Lee is one of a few people that could make TKD work or even Systema. It has to do with his obsessive compulsive training regiment and natural talent more than any martial art. However, not everyone has those attributes. It's fun to learn, and yet, it is cool. I don't think it's practical for the average person. But, Inosanto does teach it.
Inosanto understood, unlike you, that "JKD" is more of a concept or philosophy than a system of martial arts. He's continued to help people evolve Jun Fan into their own JKD. That's the part you really can't grasp, "THEIR OWN JKD". That is why the JKD concepts people have different fighting styles from school to school and instructor to instructor. We're discovering things on our own. Guro Dan learns as much as he can so he can expose others to various methods of training and technique, so we can find our own path.
You want to follow in the exact path that Bruce Lee did. Fine, if that's what you want, do it. Feel like a movie star, make funny noises and keep training that way. My own personal "JKD" involves learning methods that are combat tested in and out of the ring and training that actually involves aliveness. When you get into your first fight and try a pak sao, lop sao trapping combo and get punched in the nose, maybe you'll figure out that what Lee did in the movies really doesn't work for 90% of the population.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." – Voltaire.
Posted On:1/22/2005 12:17pm
Ok... Thanks for the link (though you left out the all important .com). After a bit of searching I couldn't find the transcript that you were speaking of.
Further to address some of your points. You mention the fact that Bruce closed down the Chinatown school where Dan taught. What you failed to note is that Bruce closed ALL of his schools at the same time (Coinciding with his leaving for Hong Kong and a desire to unburden himslf from teaching). And permission was given to Taky, Jimmy and Dan to teach privately.
On the note that Dan isn't a fighter... I don't think you'll get much disagreement there from folks. He is an educator and a scholar.
In regards to the copyright thing, Dan didn't seem to put up much of a fight, it turns out that he didn't renew the rights. And if your so concerned about that do you want to talk about Harvest Moon Productions (the Cadwell/Lee Company) sending out cease and desist orders to websites with "Bruce Lee" in the title or url?
More so, what are your feelings on this letter from Linda Lee/Cadwell... edit:It's from Paula Inasanto... I'm a dumbass:
Now let's mention what you haven't done: back up your original claim of the $1,000,000 a year.
And could you explain why someone who identifies himself as a "Dan fan" in his first posting seems so interested in cutting the man down at every opportunity?
Last edited by Matt Bernius; 1/23/2005 2:05pm at .
Posted On:1/22/2005 12:22pm
Paula is the blunt voice of Dan Inosanto. She says what Dan is too nice to say, but what she says is the truth.
Posted On:1/22/2005 6:39pm
Wow Matt and Thaiboxerken you guys are getting me with the old jab and cross. You nailed me with the million dollar thing for shure. Best caculation with seminars, tuition from school and merchandise would likely be only half a mill or so. My finger must have got stuck to the caculator. Actually my source fed me the wrong figures..wonder what she had in mind?
Matt thank you for bringing up the Paula letter. Poison pen Paula is a lying bitch..there I said it only because it is true. I checked out all the names on her 1993 ( Krivka and you forgot to mention that her dribbel is very old)letter. Jerry Poteet may be the most skilled JKD instructor of all time. Paula lies about him because he had just landed the "Dragon" movie gig with Jason Scott Lee. Everyone in JKD wanted to train Jason but the producers searched out the best and went with Jerry Poteet. Watch Jerry's first set of JKD videos and you will see the real JKD performed by a fighter. Jerry was a black belt under Ed Parker and was Dan's equal not his student in JKD. True Jerry did not attend Dan's classes because he was busy along with Dr.Daniel Lee and Ted Wong personally training with Bruce Lee. You can see how persnickity Paula bends the truth to make it seem like she is being honest but she really is trying to discredit Jerry Poteet. She does the same tactic with Dr.Jerry Beasley by claiming he is not certified to teach. She leaves out the part about about the fact that the Dr. never owned a JKD school and never claimed to be teaching JKD. . Dr.Beasley who earned the 8th dan under no less than Joe Lewis and the 9th Dan under one of Bruce Lee's teachers by the name of Prof. Wall Jay, was the best JKD writer and JKD camp promoter in the 1990's. He did train with Dan Inosanto and if you go to his website at www.aikia.net you can view the certificates personally signed by Dan Inosanto. Lamar Davis has certifications from five or six of Bruce's students and is in fantastic shape. Gary Dill trained personally with James Lee, how long? Who knows. Cheif Dill was a police officer for 20 years and put his life on the line daily. He deserves better than loony Paula's bitch letter.
Now here is the main thing. People only point to Paula lies when they want to discredit someone. This guy Michael Krivka claims to be a grandmaster of "Tai Chi Feely" What kind of an perverted idiot would say that? Krivka loves the attention that he gets whae some low life stumbels upon a letter written in 1993 and trashed by Inside Kung Fu magazien as stupid self serving lies. They refused to print the trash because they would have been sued.
You see that is the problem . People get brainwashed to beleive that Paula and Dan crap and are bias against the actual students of Bruce Lee. As for Dan do the math. Two hundred and fifty McJKD clubs teaching everything but JKD and spreading bad feeling about the teachers of JKD. I know you guys proabably are affiliated with Guro Dan and that's O.K. He is a grandmaster. Problem is it's not Bruce Lee's JKD and everyone knows it.
Last edited by Kickbox; 1/24/2005 8:35pm at .
Reason: Clean up misinformation
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