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  1. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Genius

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 12:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why ? Jun Fan is Bruce's own mix of Wing Chun, Boxing, some footwork from western fencing and some kicks of his own.
    So that you can learn the historical progression of what Bruce Lee did and why he came up with "JKD". There is no JKD without Jun Fan Gung Fu. That is what links people to Bruce Lee.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  2. wingchunnewbie is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 1:28pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    So that you can learn the historical progression of what Bruce Lee did and why he came up with "JKD". There is no JKD without Jun Fan Gung Fu. That is what links people to Bruce Lee.
    So JKD is MMA with a Jun Fan core, and Jun Fan is important, because without it, you can't get any closer to the spirit of Bruce ? I'm confused.
  3. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Genius

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2005 1:36pm

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     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jun Fan is important so you can understand the point of JKD.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  4. 5FingazofDeath is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2005 11:32am

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     Style: BJJ/MMA/JKDC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    What?? You're joking, right?
    Early 90's is when the trapping routes were held popular and of high importance. The idea was after straight blasting the guy when his hands would come up, you would trap the arm and get the neck. Then follow up with your elbows, knees, and headbutts. Remember that?

    JKDC is changing all the time. Have you ever seen Paul Vunaks more recent "RAT" videos? Or any of his newer tapes? There is no emphasis on trapping, because they found that it takes too long to learn and also there is easier things to do. Think about it like this - do you think you can trap a boxer? Probably not right? In the UFC/PRIDE/ - whatever how many trapping routes have you seen when fighters are entering into clinch range? Not alot right? More like none.

    Showing all these fancy trapping routes is a method that JKD people would use to try to get students to join. I know this because Ive been an assistant for years and my coach and myself would do just that! When we get them in, we show them the real ****. Trapping routes should not be looked for. YOU DONT "WANT" TO TRAP. You want to get the neck. Its only when an obstruction comes your way - do you trap. And a lot of these higher guys are starting to see that there are easier ways to deal with these obstructions other than trapping.

    Just to keep you up do date, there are the other things that modern day JKDC modified from a few years back. One is the "strong side foreward" stance. That was a staple of JKD. Now some are changing back to a orthadox stance, because they feel more comfortable. Another is the removal of chi sao from training - which happend because of the decline of trapping as high importance.
  5. Phoenix is offline
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    Stand and Deliver!

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    Posted On:
    1/29/2005 12:42am

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     Style: JKD Concepts, Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 5FingazofDeath
    Early 90's is when the trapping routes were held popular and of high importance. The idea was after straight blasting the guy when his hands would come up, you would trap the arm and get the neck. Then follow up with your elbows, knees, and headbutts. Remember that?

    JKDC is changing all the time. Have you ever seen Paul Vunaks more recent "RAT" videos? Or any of his newer tapes? There is no emphasis on trapping, because they found that it takes too long to learn and also there is easier things to do. Think about it like this - do you think you can trap a boxer? Probably not right? In the UFC/PRIDE/ - whatever how many trapping routes have you seen when fighters are entering into clinch range? Not alot right? More like none.

    Showing all these fancy trapping routes is a method that JKD people would use to try to get students to join. I know this because Ive been an assistant for years and my coach and myself would do just that! When we get them in, we show them the real ****. Trapping routes should not be looked for. YOU DONT "WANT" TO TRAP. You want to get the neck. Its only when an obstruction comes your way - do you trap. And a lot of these higher guys are starting to see that there are easier ways to deal with these obstructions other than trapping.

    Just to keep you up do date, there are the other things that modern day JKDC modified from a few years back. One is the "strong side foreward" stance. That was a staple of JKD. Now some are changing back to a orthadox stance, because they feel more comfortable. Another is the removal of chi sao from training - which happend because of the decline of trapping as high importance.
    Ah, yes...now I know what you're referring to. I thought you were talking about trap RANGE being of unimportance, rather than trapping. My bad.

    But, still...we still use pak sao, lop sao and the like at more intermediate levels.

    Mostly though, as with many other PFS schools, we work more in numerada, sumbrada, serrada and the like, which is a good idea. It's alot easier to learn and digest when it's being taught.
    "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby
  6. 5FingazofDeath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/29/2005 11:17am

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     Style: BJJ/MMA/JKDC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    Ah, yes...now I know what you're referring to. I thought you were talking about trap RANGE being of unimportance, rather than trapping. My bad.

    But, still...we still use pak sao, lop sao and the like at more intermediate levels.

    Mostly though, as with many other PFS schools, we work more in numerada, sumbrada, serrada and the like, which is a good idea. It's alot easier to learn and digest when it's being taught.

    Nah, I love fighting in clinch range!! But I could see how the confusion could happen. After a harder workout we would do some softer technical stuff like trapping routes - just to freshen up and cool down a bit.

    I could tell that you have had good training. Adding that Kali influence into the mix is such a huge part of JKDC curriculem.

    WHO IS YOUR MASTER??? (always wanted to say that).
  7. Phoenix is offline
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    Stand and Deliver!

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    Posted On:
    1/30/2005 1:30am

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     Style: JKD Concepts, Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 5FingazofDeath
    Nah, I love fighting in clinch range!! But I could see how the confusion could happen. After a harder workout we would do some softer technical stuff like trapping routes - just to freshen up and cool down a bit.

    I could tell that you have had good training. Adding that Kali influence into the mix is such a huge part of JKDC curriculem.

    WHO IS YOUR MASTER??? (always wanted to say that).
    I train with Greg LeBoeuf at Progressive Combat Academy in Edmonton.

    Greg is a former student of Paul Vunak and Thomas Cruze.

    www.progressivecombatacademy.com
    "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby
  8. 5FingazofDeath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/30/2005 1:03pm

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     Style: BJJ/MMA/JKDC

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Good ****. My coach Roger Denton, is also a instructor under Paul and under Sharom Moosavi.

    www.ctmma.com Although the web site is definitely not updated too often.
  9. hasbulelias is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/22/2007 11:37pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So JKD is MMA with a Jun Fan core, and Jun Fan is important, because without it, you can't get any closer to the spirit of Bruce ? I'm confused.

    I have a JKD instructor and personally i dont think the Jun Fan system is that important although important to have a basis in it. While training I havent yet completed all of the Jun Fan curriculum but learnt some Brazilian Jujitsu techniques and would really use them in a fight even though I havent been officially certified in that field. As to the spirit of Bruce Lee, if we think that learning a set of techniques makes us closer to a philosophy that wasnt even Bruce Lee's, but just some very good common sense coming through a person like Bruce, then we are ending up in a classical mess. Receiving an all round training in JKD is really great, something that I wouldnt get from the classical martial arts like karate or wing shun or tkd. With sufficient training in any art anyone could make it effective, but training in JKD, learning the most cutting edge techniques in all ranges of combat from kixking to boxing to grappling is an amazing privelege. Im glad that my instructor isnt a one trick pony, he's knowledge of martial arts is always expanding, he takes it upon himself to be qualified in all the ranges, he has qualifications in jun fan, muay thai, kali stickfighting and is getting close to Brazilian Jujitsu, he's an encyclopedia and he gives his students his best, but its so important to realise that this martial art thing is not something solely learnt from the expertise of our "masters". It requires one's own thinking, one's own methods to make sure that when one is in a fight, we have learnt enough from our classes but also our own mental and physical deficiencies to protect ourselves. After hours of training Ive learnt so many techniques, but ask me to call upon those in a dangerous situation I know that I would prefer using some over others because thats just how I would fight. This is the great thing about JKD, its not afraid to expand its reaches. And this is why I have over the years diverted away from the classical martial arts, they are by nature classical, they rely on old knowledge which JKD has already incorporated but now seeks to expand. Ive seen many wing chun students come in to some of our classes n walk out because they didnt like the idea of grappling. Fair enough, im sure they can defend themselves just as well without grappling, but to me its like saying you dont want to learn, and all I can do when I see them walk out is feel sorry for them. They're martial expression is stunted by a whole RANGE of combat, they wont grapple, its a bloody shame! ANd I can feel that the more that this JKD becomes bigger and its database of experimentation with different arts and its continual innovation, the mroe freedom the martial artist will get in expressing his body in times of danger. And this is the difference between JKD and anything classical, and to solely learn Jun fan which I feel the BLF try to promote is a huge danger to martial artists. Its like saying you want to be blind. And its the same with classical arts. The subject to be taught is the neural muscular coordination system, the curriculum is any and every way that the human body can move. If one's curriculum is solely a classical one, then your graduation will be in a more closed subject than another who has decided to open up his mind and to not even just stick to one's JKD instructor's arts, but to even learn other arts that one's instructor doesn't teach. **** this worship my one and only master ****, forget this there can only be one super style. Like Bruce would have said, and any one with some common sense, in a fight its just one man against another, its the man thats more important than the system. This I feel is how we get closer to the spirit of Bruce Lee, to a more effective and liberating form of defense.
  10. Wolf is offline
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    T3h R34l Gangnam Style!

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    Posted On:
    7/23/2007 10:00am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    please edit your post so that it is broken up into paragraphs. It is pretty much illegible as is.
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