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  1. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 3:39pm

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     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Joint Breaks vs Joint Locks

    Ok, so the full nelson is a "break" and illegal in wrestling. But I've done it and seen it done hundreds of times growing up. I never really thought about it until I saw this --

    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Machine
    I always hear of these joint "breaks" as different from locks.
    Yet after all these years of having "breaks" legal at my school I've yet to see one.
    Could one of you please explain the difference between locks deemed "breaks" vs other locks?
    I mean other than "breaks" not working.
    So what is the difference?
      #1
  2. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 3:48pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A "break" is a lock taken further than the joint can take. Since we're talking about joints, the term "dislocation" I think is more appropriate.
      #2
  3. SMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/17/2005 2:30am


     Style: Delusional Idiocy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    some "locks" can't really control someone but can cause stuff to pop if done explosivly. You can't really "tap someone out" with them... Think of stuff like the old standing off to the side of someone slightly in fornt, facing the same way, and yanking their forearm, palm up, down so their upper arm is levered against your shoulder type stuff.
      #3
  4. Kayne is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/17/2005 3:23am

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     Style: Capoeira

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aye, they're pretty much the same thing, only different degrees.

    SMF, you mean a reverse straight armlock, right? Aye, they can still try to take a shot at you, but a bit of pain can do wonders to sap someone's strength, not to mention that you're in a prime position to block and counter attack to their face or their groin, and then re-apply the lock.
    Last edited by Kayne; 1/17/2005 3:26am at .
    I'm not drowning my sorrows, I'm preserving them in alcohol.
      #4
  5. Freddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/17/2005 5:15pm

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     Style: Be Happy

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Many joint locks can become joint breaks; it basically depends on the amount of speed and forced used.
    (The exception though aikido locks (most) as they resist against muscles more than the joint itself.)
    Ghost of Charles Dickens
      #5
  6. JackHanma is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/17/2005 9:25pm


     Style: MantisShrimpFu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PirateNinja5000
    Ok, so the full nelson is a "break" and illegal in wrestling. But I've done it and seen it done hundreds of times growing up. I never really thought about it until I saw this --



    So what is the difference?

    The difference is that the force used for a poper joint break is dynamic like a punch than a slow pull or push on the level. Think about a kness bar. There you can slowly pull the joint beyond its limit given enough pressure. But it would require a good amount of strength. Now imagine if the leg was straight and resting on an object like a man resting his legs on a footstool. Image what would happening if someone stomped on the knee using is full body weight? The joint is gonna break very easily and unlike a submission you don't have to isolate the level at much.
      #6
  7. SMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/17/2005 10:38pm


     Style: Delusional Idiocy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah kayne reverse straight armlock is probably what most people call it. There is no doubt with all that leverage against the joint and your ability to provide downward force with your arms and abdomen and push up with your legs explosivly that the arm could easily go pop.
      #7
  8. Meex is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/17/2005 10:57pm

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     Style: Tao Ga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The difference between joint breaks and joint locks are what you choose to do with them, and how far you want to take your practice.

    For the most part, as has been said here, they are the same.

    A joint lock is taken TO the point of no return: pressure applied to cause the opponent to tap out, give up, calm down, etc. Many times pressure is added in a gradual manner.

    The break comes when pressure is taken past the point of no return and applied full force, and all at once. Dislocated joints, broken bones, torn muscles, ligaments, and tendons are all a possibility.

    `~/
    Last edited by Meex; 1/18/2005 12:13am at .
      #8
  9. SMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/18/2005 12:56am


     Style: Delusional Idiocy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it fair to say that almost all locks can be used to cause people to submit OR break, whereas some can be used to "arrest" someone completly and others are really only useful for causing an explosive break..or in sport a tap out?
      #9
  10. Strong Machine is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/20/2005 12:29am

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     Style: Pro-Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll answer my own question.
    "Locks" are what those of us that spar do.
    "Breaks" is what locks that do not work vs resisting opponants are called in bullshido schools so as to explain why these locks are not seen in SPORT competitions.They are too deadly and best left to the street.

    I have never once told a student he could not do these "breaks".
    I don't need to.Because they are bullshit.
      #10
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