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  1. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 2:47pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Escapes From Kesa Gatame

    I did a search, and there was a thread on this, but it was in the "Bullshido" forum and I didn't want to 'ttt' it because it would be in the wrong place. Also, the thread didn't last long, and didn't offer too much info.

    Anyway, I keep getting put in Kesa Gatame, and I would like to learn a good number of escapes from this position.

    So far I have:

    1. Scoot your hips out to the side, put a hook in and take his back. This is OK because I am a limber SOB, but it's hard if they have my arm trapped, especially if I'm wearing the gi.

    2. Put my free hand across his neck, push him away violently, and try to shrimp my legs free. This works ok, except I realize now that cross-facing in class is a bit of a bitch move, so I would like to be able to do something else.


    Any tips on escaping Kesa, or just how to position myself while under it in order to keep from getting subbed, would be greatly appreciated.
    sudo make me a sandwich!
  2. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 2:53pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Frame up, throw a leg over his head

    or

    Push into him to get him to push back, and then roll him over you and take side control.
  3. Shuma-Gorath is offline
    Shuma-Gorath's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 3:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shrimp your hips into him and clasp you hands under his lowest rib. Dig in with the edge of your hands and bridge him up towards your head. If he posts his hand, this is your cue to roll. If he doesn't you'll feel when you get him high enough. Roll him over and start playing the top.

    Digging your hands into and under the ribs will make even the heaviest guy much lighter.
  4. Sideshow Bob is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 3:32pm


     Style: balloonanimal-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like to use a technique usually taught to kids known to me only as "the swing". Crawl up to him as close as you can and pass your 'free' hand between your own legs from back to front and use it to grab the back of his gi.
    Your forearm will be roughly in the back of your own knee. Then you start rocking using the momentum of your leg to pull him off of you and on to his back. Even if he holds on to you you are probably able to take over his kesagatame with your own kesa gatame or better yet kata gatame or even better ude-garami.
    If this technique is used against you the only way of stopping your opponent is really to get all your weight on his torso so he can't start the rocking motion, unfortunately this opens you up for any of the other techniques above, becuse you lose the base of your power: your legs.
  5. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 4:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A good Kesa applied with underarm control and head down is almost impossible to escape. You can quickly thrash yourself into exhaustion.
  6. PeedeeShaolin is offline
    PeedeeShaolin's Avatar

    Co-Founder, Retired Admin

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 4:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyDaHedgehog
    I did a search, and there was a thread on this, but it was in the "Bullshido" forum and I didn't want to 'ttt' it because it would be in the wrong place. Also, the thread didn't last long, and didn't offer too much info.

    Anyway, I keep getting put in Kesa Gatame, and I would like to learn a good number of escapes from this position.

    So far I have:

    1. Scoot your hips out to the side, put a hook in and take his back. This is OK because I am a limber SOB, but it's hard if they have my arm trapped, especially if I'm wearing the gi.

    2. Put my free hand across his neck, push him away violently, and try to shrimp my legs free. This works ok, except I realize now that cross-facing in class is a bit of a bitch move, so I would like to be able to do something else.


    Any tips on escaping Kesa, or just how to position myself while under it in order to keep from getting subbed, would be greatly appreciated.

    The way you escape kesa gatame depends on how your opponent positions himself. There are many ways to stabilize a kesa and when rolling a person will probably go through more than 1 of them in an attempt to maintain his position over a resisting opponent.

    #'s 1 and 2 are the most common ways a person can escape and usually the first escapes learned in a class. They should be practiced over and over again because this is one of the most difficult positions to escape, especially when you have a trained wrestler holding you down.

    On #2 you aren't trying to force his head back or anything like that. It appears that you're trying to do this but in actuality you're trying to prevent his head from coming any closer to you and taking away your chance to possibly hook it with your leg. Just use the bone in your arm to keep him from coming any closer. I learned this from Renzo so the advice is probably pretty solid.

    Since there are many ways the top man can hold you its important to master a number of escaoes which are all dependant upon the top man's body positioning.

    Another simple escape from the kesa is used when you fail to keep his head away and he tucks himself into a ball as a result, taking away both his head and his leg for you to use as an escape hatch.

    The escape for this is just as simple to learn but takes just as many hours of practice to master:

    1. Clasp both of your hands around his midsection, holding him tight to you.

    2. Scoot your hips out as far as you can away from your opponent.

    3. The next thing you're going to do is bring yourself to your knees and use your head to force your opponent to roll, since he's placed himself in a ball. If he had your right arm trapped you would get to your knees and then look to the ceiling while bringing him doen onto his LEFT shoulder.

    4. Finish the position by throwing your right leg over his body in the mounted position.


    An important thing about this position is that you have to practice the escapes ALOT. You should try and soend a good 10 to 20 minutes a session on kesa/headlock escapes because they're very common both in competition and in real fights.

    Dont practice with full resistance at first because you arent going to learn anything that way. Get the movement down and feel where your leverage is. When you have all the mechanics down then you should increase your partners resistance to make it DIFFICULt for you but noway NEAR impossible.

    the time for full out resistance is in competition or when rolling.

    Gradually increase reisitance only after you fully understand the technique and you'll improve alot faster.

    Some people think its boring to practice the same techniques over and over until they fully understand them but the only thing I can say to that is "tough". Anything worth learning is only accomplished with work.
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  7. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 6:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's some good advice on this thread on how to escape once the position is on, but my question to you would be:
    How are you getting caught?

    If your opponent starts moving around to your right side, you should be on your right side, both arms tucked in against your body. This will make it harder for him to pull up on your right arm and put you flat on your back. So when you are on your side and your opponent is trying to pull up on your right arm, escape your hips out, knee him up the butt with your top knee so you knock him forward and get an underhook with your left arm which will allow you to go straight to his back.
  8. Strong Machine is offline

    Professional Fighter/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 6:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Pro-Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    far I have:

    "1. Scoot your hips out to the side, put a hook in and take his back. "

    Careful he doesnt wrap his forearm over your foot and introduce your toes to your forehead.

    In general if you CANNOT get your stuck arms elbow to the mat, you want to walk your ass away making him scoot to follow you.AS he scoots toward you your bridge him toward your far shoulder(kind of).
    You can be palm to palm or grabbing his panmts of belt at his hip with your free arm.

    IF he doesnt go over he will still at least have gone up a bit, as he goes up quickly spin your schest back toward him and get your same side knee under his hip or the kneecap wedged into his hip so you can pry your head out.
    Another good one is going palm to palm in front of him, driving your forearm into his neck as you walk your ass up.
    Now as his head is forced up you can suddenly jerk your elbow to the floor or get your far leg over his head.
    The rest is easy to figure out.
  9. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 6:16pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The way I get caught typically is when they take side control, I start to escape, and then they move to Kesa to maintain good position.

    The way I see it happening (from my hyper-uber-n00b perspective) is this: When he's in side control (in this example they are on my right side) I put my right forearm against his hips. I then scoot my hips out and push against him with my forearm, trying to get my right leg in front of him to get him back in guard. Since this leaves my right arm out, and kinda pushes the left side of his hip up (which moves his hips to where they would end up for Kesa), he grabs my right arm and pulls it out (this isn't hard since I'm pushing with it anyway) and takes Kesa Gatame.

    If I roll with someone who is even n00bier than I am, this is normally how I end up holding him in Kesa too.

    Thanks to everyone so far, great input.
    sudo make me a sandwich!
  10. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

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    Posted On:
    1/16/2005 6:19pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Machine
    Careful he doesnt wrap his forearm over your foot and introduce your toes to your forehead.
    Does this put pressure on a joint, or just my hamstrings? Because if it's just supposed to stretch a muscle, I'm probably flexible enough that it's not a problem (however, I imagine it would be a difficult position for me to escape, and very disadvantageous to be in).
    sudo make me a sandwich!
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