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  1. DARKSON is offline
    DARKSON's Avatar

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 9:38am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I then sparred one of his students who fought pretty much the same as the Sifu minus the snappy front kicks. They have a sideways stance, which is nice for getting kicked in the thigh. He took about 5 or 6 good kicks before he gave up. He actually injured his ankle while we were sparring and had some pretty massive swelling. He was pretty pissed and kept saying how he will see me soon. He will se me on Monday in fact if he is in place. I dont know if he was mad more about the injury or buy taking so much damage from a 57 155lb guy.
    "The next one I will take will pay for my loss. Someone has to pay!" ~ The Axe Murderer
  2. leejunfan is offline

    Wing Chun Instructor

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 10:52am


     Style: fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mirth
    Allright since at least a few of you are seemingly interested in actually talking about something, I've got a simple question for you. What would you say is a good ruleset, environment and/or gear necessary for quality _ing _un sparring?
    I think it depends on the level of the poeple who are sparring. I'm a firm believer in starting off easy and building up over time to almost full contact. By almost full contact I mean basic cage fighting rules. What we must remember is that cage matches are not FULL... full contact. Full contact would be anything goes. With that said the point of sparring is to learn and not to compete to be king of the ring. At least that's how we approuch it. Sparring has to be something that helps us learn. For gear nice quality boxing gloves are good and maybe even some grap gloves if they are padded well. Depending on the level some will opt for shin gaurds. Out our school we try to stay on our feet but will take it to the ground if need be. Our ground training comes from Guru Kevin Seaman.

    Here is a description of our ground training:
    Combat Submission Wrestling
    Certified Instructor/Coach
    Kevin Seaman

    Taught to Sifu Kevin by World Reknown Grappling Expert Sifu Erik Paulson former Light Heavyweight Shooto World Champion. Students will learn various methods of combat and street grappling blended together in a comprehensive system. Using long and mid-range techniques from Western Boxing, Muay Thai, and Jun Fan / J.K.D., the practitioner learns how to enter safely and efficiently into the grappling range. The "Combat Submision Wrestling" Grappling method utilizes principles and techniques from Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, Kali, Silat, Shoot Wrestling and Collegiate wrestling to form a devastating system of throws, take downs, control maneuvers, joint locking, and finishing holds.
    We just had a workshop this past Wednesday and it was a blast.

    I would like to ask... and I'm not defending Sifu Anthony Arnett.... but what proof do you have of this match? If we ask him, will he say he sparred with you? Not trying to start a flame war but I have seen many bogus claims before.
  3. Sophist is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 11:21am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leejunfan
    I would like to ask... and I'm not defending Sifu Anthony Arnett.... but what proof do you have of this match? If we ask him, will he say he sparred with you? Not trying to start a flame war but I have seen many bogus claims before.
    Not sure there's a need for defence, here, leejunfan. Even taken at face value, the sifu sounds to have held his end up respectably (with "great" stamina and "good" striking) against a much younger, well-conditioned, successful Thai boxing competitor, albeit a smaller one. Were this a common trait among wing chun schools, I suspect there would be much less mockery of the art on these boards than there is at present.

    If this is a slightly rose-tinted account from Darkson (and I'm not saying it is), it reads even better for Sifu Arnett. Either way it sounds like a WC school unafraid of contact and possessed of a pleasing level of competency.

    Edit: corrected stamina comment.
  4. The_Mirth is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 11:25am


     Style: WC, Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wouldn't think you'd want to use boxing gloves for sparring /w _ing _un as it really limits what you can do with your hands. Also I know you wouldn't use everything goes rules but I am curious what rules would be lax enough to use the _ing _un tool set while limiting risk to major injury. Since Darkson says he has some experience fighting a _ing _un guy I'd be interested to hear what the agreed rules and gear were.





    edit: I somehow managed to misspell _ing _un.
    Last edited by The_Mirth; 7/15/2005 1:58pm at .
  5. TakeAnother is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 1:09pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Leejunfan,

    What ring experience do you have?
  6. leejunfan is offline

    Wing Chun Instructor

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 6:49pm


     Style: fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    During the 80's I trained intensly with my brother and a boxer name Mario in Yonkers NY and competed in gym oriented as well as back yard matches. I never went into full competition because of several reasons. A) I had no plans on going pro and B) I trained in boxing because I've always loved it. Since then my sparring has been done with classmates and instructors as well as other martial art friends with varying degrees of contact ranging from light to hard.

    I don't think my question was aggressive in the least. If it was taken that way you have my apologies. Like I said, I don't know Anthony Arnett personally therefore I have no reason to defend him in any way.

    I wouldn't think you'd want to use boxing gloves for sparring /w _ing _un as it really limits what you can do with your hands.
    have you ever trained with Dan Inosanto? I attend his seminars in NYC as often as I can and we do trapping drills with all kinds of gloves. Boxing gloves vary in size and padding. If the glove is too big then yes it will make some Wing Chun type trapping difficult but I have never had a problem using them. I personally prefer using Grap gloves with a little extra padding.
  7. alittlebird is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2003
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 6:49pm


     Style: Judo, a tiny bit of bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Take downs I'd have to hear how each individual take down is supposed to go, to be able to explain how to nullify it. Just hitting on the center and elbowing, kneeing, kicking would be my first answers its hard to get close to someone who does wing tsun. Even when falling to the ground I'm hitting and kicking never go quietly.
    LMFAO! So you answer is to KO the grappler on the way down? Do you have any idea how many people have said this before you?


    I also have not trained antilocking techniques yet but most locks people try are two hands on one hand which results in getting hit by my other hand. We train our bodies to have reflexes where we remain loose and control our joints. Most locks have to use the persons own power against themselves when your muscles are loose you always have another joint free, I have not trained this yet only seen it.
    So your answer to being choked/joint locked is to strike with your free hand? And you've never actually tried this? LOL.


    Also, out of curiosity, does Steve Faulkner (trained under Duncan Leung) have teh r33l wing chun?
    Last edited by alittlebird; 7/15/2005 6:50pm at . Reason: clarity
  8. DARKSON is offline
    DARKSON's Avatar

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 8:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Im sure Sifu Arnett would remeber sparring me since it happened 2 days ago. I can only offer my word as proof.

    We used Vale Tudo(grappling) gloves, Head gear, shin pads, shoes. Sifu Arnett also wore forearm pads. I wore a steel cup. We did not discuss rules. He did mention that we should not wrestle on the concrete but that we could do so inside. I do intend to take him up on that offer next time.

    This was purely sparring. My goal was not to defeat Sifu Arnett or to prove anything about WC or MT or BJJ or MMA. If that was my goal then I would have taken him down and gone for a submission or really tried to stop him with my strikes. This was not the case.

    We both were probably going about 60%-75%.
    Last edited by DARKSON; 7/15/2005 9:26pm at .
    "The next one I will take will pay for my loss. Someone has to pay!" ~ The Axe Murderer
  9. The_Mirth is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 9:24pm


     Style: WC, Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks a lot for the responses leejunfan and darkson, very interesting.
  10. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2005 11:39pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DARKSON
    Sparred with a well-known wing Chun master Anthony Arnett this week. His striking was good but there was NO chain punching. He stuck with sidekicks, roundhouses, and haymakers (wide looping punches) and front kicks. The sidekicks and front kicks were ineffective IMO. The front kicks were really snappy and I always ended up shin blocking them inadvertently even when he was aiming for my head or maybe he was trying to front kick my shins? He really only had success with his hooks and high roundhouses which was largely due to my vision impairment because of the bar faced head gear that they wear during sparring. They are the thick foam bar headgear that cover the face and make it very difficult to see peripheral.

    I landed cleanly with many low kicks to his thighs, which did not make him happy. He kept switching stances and giving me the other thigh, which I promptly kicked. He then decided that It was time I got a taste of my own medicine a he started throwing some very hard inside leg low kicks. I shin blocked them all. We had on pads but I think he was trying to test my shins he kept trying to pound with the low kicks.

    We got in a clinch and he threw a knee, which brought a big smile to my face. I returned with some really good knees of my own that went deep into his belly. I threw him down to the concrete from the clinch and he tried TO TAKE ME DOWN! I though that was cute, I escaped the ankle pick and punched him in the face for his trouble.

    We sparred for about 10 minutes or so which was cool because Im used to doing rounds. The Sifu has great stamina for an older guy. He decided to stop at about ten minutes. I guess his lungs caught up to him. He is about 63 250. We sparred out in the parking lot of his school. It was fun to spar with a guy from a different style.
    Arnett's one of the few (and I mean few - can count them on one hand) in Cheung Lineage who actually spar and aren't afraid of fighting, even against better people. (He was raised in ghetto Baltimore :/ ) There's a complete absence of groundfighting in Cheung lineage except for the three or four techniques that make up its 4|\|TI-G|24|D|DL3...

    I agree with Sophist, needs to be more of this from the WC world so they can at least make an attempt to regain some respect...
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