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  1. FMA_Brian is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Columbus OH
    Posts
    111

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 8:14am


     Style: Filipino Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you old buzzards established that "Bowers is a dumb ****" quite a while ago already?

    Although I do appreciate his colourful language and innovative use of smileys.
    Speaking of his weird grasp on English; I like how he threw my handle right in the middle of his "rant" followed by the word "wheechy". Means I musta gotten to him calling him a moron and all.

    guess I am important :thumbsup:

    -Brian
  2. leejunfan is offline

    Wing Chun Instructor

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    79

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:05am


     Style: fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by thewhitejetli
    I enjoyed training in Wing Chun alot, and I think it has some interesting principles, but why do you think Bruce Lee found the need to modify it if it was already perfect?
    Did I ever call Wing Chun perfect?


    The facts of Bruce Lee and Wing Chun. Bruce Lee never got past Chum Kiu Level (second form). In fact he never completed that form. He was also never taught the dummy, pole, swords and was in the intermediate stages Chi Sau. He was kicked out of the school because a bunch of his classmates thought he was too brash and disrespectful and used his racial mix (he was a quarter German) to get rid of him. Yip Man liked Lee but did not want to lose the financial support of those students so he "kicked" Lee out but told two of his top students Wong Shun Leung and Cheung Cheuk Hing (William Cheung) to secretly continue teaching young Lee. The 3 were great friends and were known for getting into their fair share of street scraps. But soon Lee left for America and Cheung left for Australia.

    Bruce Lee had a lot of holes that were left unfilled because he never finished the system. He fully intended to some day finish the system but died before getting the chance. But before that time he learned the value of self reliance and self taught himself as much as he could as well as taking from various other arts. Bruce Lee had a talent for being able to see something once and performing it exactly.

    So there you have it. If anyone ever asks WHY Bruce "changed" Wing Chun you have your answer.

    Also please take notice that not all of Yip (Ip) Man's students are the same. Each one making modifications that expressed their individuality as fighters. Some honed their skills in combat and other in the gym. Some stayed true to the reality of street and others subscribed to fantasy. When people broad generalize Wing Chun I just sit back and laugh. Every system out there suffers what WC is suffering now. It's already happening to BJJ. Admit these facts, there are a lot of so called BJJ instructors out there that have not stayed true to what BJJ is really all about. As time goes by this great system you (and now I) all love will be divided into the highly effective old school and the ineffective, watered down, money making new schools.

    Such is the way of the money machine
    Last edited by leejunfan; 7/18/2005 9:09am at .
  3. MrSmith is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2005
    Location
    Finland
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    236

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:15am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFu
    I see. I wasn't trying to establish myself through bashing bowers - I was referring to the thread in Trollshido.
  4. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    20,894

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:21am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leejunfan
    Did I ever call Wing Chun perfect?


    The facts of Bruce Lee and Wing Chun. Bruce Lee never got past Chum Kiu Level (second form). In fact he never completed that form. He was also never taught the dummy, pole, swords and was in the intermediate stages Chi Sau. He was kicked out of the school because a bunch of his classmates thought he was too brash and disrespectful and used his racial mix (he was a quarter German) to get rid of him. Yip Man liked Lee but did not want to lose the financial support of those students so he "kicked" Lee out but told two of his top students Wong Shun Leung and Cheung Cheuk Hing (William Cheung) to secretly continue teaching young Lee. The 3 were great friends and were known for getting into their fair share of street scraps. But soon Lee left for America and Cheung left for Australia.

    Bruce Lee had a lot of holes that were left unfilled because he never finished the system. He fully intended to some day finish the system but died before getting the chance. But before that time he learned the value of self reliance and self taught himself as much as he could as well as taking from various other arts. Bruce Lee had a talent for being able to see something once and performing it exactly.

    So there you have it. If anyone ever asks WHY Bruce "changed" Wing Chun you have your answer.

    Also please take notice that not all of Yip (Ip) Man's students are the same. Each one making modifications that expressed their individuality as fighters. Some honed their skills in combat and other in the gym. Some stayed true to the reality of street and others subscribed to fantasy. When people broad generalize Wing Chun I just sit back and laugh. Every system out there suffers what WC is suffering now. It's already happening to BJJ. Admit these facts, there are a lot of so called BJJ instructors out there that have not stayed true to what BJJ is really all about. As time goes by this great system you (and now I) all love will be divided into the highly effective old school and the ineffective, watered down, money making new schools.

    Such is the way of the money machine

    Strange that Bruce with his incomplete WC was able to take WC to the next level and create JKD, a system that, in MANY regards, is far superiour than WC.
  5. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Posts
    5,426

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anthony, does your lineage of WC teaches hooks and jabs as a regular part of the curriculum? Personally I consider those moves essential, and to this date I know of only one WC lineage that does.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  6. afronaut is offline
    afronaut's Avatar

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    northeast US
    Posts
    1,421

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:33am

    supporting member
     Style: boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bowers
    :violent1: No, no, no, you got me ALL Wong. I've been saying ALL along, "MMA is UNDEFEATABLE. Just because a new young guy comes in and kills the old buzzards, proves MMA is the ONLY WAY to go, honest injun. Why my pappy used to say, "Son, when you grow up, yall gonna be a real, regula, MMA killa, like yeah, sonny, boy. IT ain't like Tyson couldn't kill every last one of yall. No way. No, no, no. ....
    I'm thinking semi-homeless, unmedicated schizophrenic, posting from the public library. Yeah, that feels right.
    I dork harder than any of you can imagine.

    - Hedgehoney
  7. DARKSON is offline
    DARKSON's Avatar

    Middleweight

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    May 2003
    Location
    Coral Springs, Florida
    Posts
    1,514

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:35am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who is Anthony?
    "The next one I will take will pay for my loss. Someone has to pay!" ~ The Axe Murderer
  8. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Sep 2003
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    Canada
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    20,894

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:35am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    Anthony, does your lineage of WC teaches hooks and jabs as a regular part of the curriculum? Personally I consider those moves essential, and to this date I know of only one WC lineage that does.

    My WC teaches hooks, jabs and uppercuts, from the outside as well.
  9. leejunfan is offline

    Wing Chun Instructor

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    79

    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:47am


     Style: fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    Anthony, does your lineage of WC teaches hooks and jabs as a regular part of the curriculum? Personally I consider those moves essential, and to this date I know of only one WC lineage that does.
    please scroll back to my earlier post on WC's rule of 3's. Yes... we do jabs.

    Strange that Bruce with his incomplete WC was able to take WC to the next level and create JKD, a system that, in MANY regards, is far superiour than WC.
    Bruce Lee was great and the curriculum he left behind when followed helps people become good fighters.... but far superior? No system in my opinion is superior to any other..... only superior fighters.

    we have a rule at our school.
    8. Criticism of other Martial Art and/or students will not be tolerated.

    The main objective of a student when he/she begins practice of Martial Arts is the cultivation of virtue and morality. The student must strive to better himself/herself.

    No one style or system reigns supreme over any other. No one style or system is so far below any other. All Martial Arts have something to offer us. If we have the wisdom to perceive all may teach us their merit. A closed mind, however, is like a full tea cup. It cannot hold anymore.

    Therefore, good conduct and respect must be shown for all fellow students, other styles and their students at all times.
  10. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Canada
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    Posted On:
    7/18/2005 9:49am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leejunfan
    please scroll back to my earlier post on WC's rule of 3's. Yes... we do jabs.



    Bruce Lee was great and the curriculum he left behind when followed helps people become good fighters.... but far superior? No system in my opinion is superior to any other..... only superior fighters.

    we have a rule at our school.

    Allow me to re-pharse:

    JKD is a more complete system and in THAT regards, superior to WC.

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