Options to pulling guard

**Beatdown Richie** · Posted On: 1/11/2005 10:25am

Why are judoka starting from the ground?

Because they want to practice groundwork.

I have yet to be attacked on my knees.

Yessss, but in the days of the Samurai, people were on their knees all day blah blah...

okay, I admit it, it doesn't have any practical relevance that I can see. But it's part of the game.

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 1/11/2005 10:37am

In the Judo ciriculum often newaza is used as a warmup. They will do a randori on the ground first. Then move to the standing throw type randori when everyone is all 'stretched' out. Instead of just moving straight into the throws where people can get hurt easier when cold.

And there are many instances where both people are on their knees. Its a fairly neutral position to start. But when you ask inane questions like, I have yet to be attacked on my knees....I have yet to be attacked 1on1 without weapons or people getting involved, so why train otherwise. I have yet to be attacked where blows were not thrown, so practice without them. I have yet to be attacked by a trained fighter, so why train to fight against them?

**Bizzaro Root** · Posted On: 1/11/2005 10:53am

ive just figured out recently that i sucks wheni start from the knees and have a hard time getting guard up and seem to get bulldozed when i try to do anything else.so i have deceided that i would copy another highup at the club and try starting from a half indian style sitting position. being tall it gives me plenty of time to gett my guard up if i go to get push back and works great for open guard. try it some time being tall and no flexible in bjj sucks.

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 1/11/2005 11:52am

Oh brother.

Now you are just arguing with me because I got the better of you on the cross-face thread. Let it go.

People start on the knees for a number of reasons. A few of them were outlined above. If you aren't familiar with Judo than maybe try to listen and learn instead of making snap judgements. In case you aren't familiar, Judo isn't about 'teh real'. Its a martial art to improve character.

Oh, and you are sniping my arguement, trying to use my sarcastic characterization of YOUR arguement as my own personal opinion. Maybe spend less time on your personal vendetta with me, and go train some reality streetfight ultimate combat no holds barred fighting method.

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 1/11/2005 12:00pm

Originally Posted by Osiris

Why are judoka starting from the ground? I wouldn't sweat it much man. I have yet to be attacked on my knees.

Originally Posted by Osiris

WHAT? You brought in all the foolishness. All you had to say was that it was a warm up. Insisting that its a real life fight position as well as all those dumb ass questions was uneccessary and fucking idiotic.

Now who is more foolish and idiotic?

YOU were the one talking about real life fight positions.

I simply pointed out that there are many reasons to start on the knees. And if you predicate your training on how you have been attacked in the past then you are wasting your time. As characterized by my response:

Originally Posted by Yrkoon

And there are many instances where both people are on their knees. Its a fairly neutral position to start. But when you ask inane questions like, I have yet to be attacked on my knees....I have yet to be attacked 1on1 without weapons or people getting involved, so why train otherwise. I have yet to be attacked where blows were not thrown, so practice without them. I have yet to be attacked by a trained fighter, so why train to fight against them?

**Gringo Grande** · Posted On: 1/11/2005 2:25pm

Just for the record...as yrkoon surmised...this is for warmup purposes only. The classes are taught by a super friendly guy with 30 years of Judo experience who had a father who was a BB in Judo as well. I work out with to learn some decent throws as being as tall as I am doesn't really seem to lend itself to wrestling. Not to dis on wrestling which is awesome the more I learn about it, but considering I have a 4 - 6" height advantage on most people I train with (at least)...I went with the suggestions some made on Bullshido to learn certain Judo throws (and they have been a very effective tool).

So yeah...an hour of warm up on the knees, then an hour of randori? (not certain if this is the correct phrase) with standup and throws. As I mentioned the main instructor is very traditional...he doesn't want his students doing no gi although I've worked some no gi with him. His assistant instructor is a Judo BB from England who is a bit younger who enjoys a little BJJ as well and sometimes I work leg locks and such with him...although the don't really teach it to their classes.

Both instructors have competed in Judo...from what I understand the head instructor at a fairly high level and they encourage the club to compete and take them to various events.

Personally, I'm quite happy training with them a little, I was just curious how to approach the aspect on which I originally posted with which I was having difficulty.

Thanks for all the responses again.

Oh...Aesopian...when I busted out the Rubber Guard on them about a month before I got hurt they were all like WTF is that? Remember, I'm a longer, fatter, (and older :() version of you...I'm all about the triangle and Omaplata. ;)

Gringo Grande

**JohnnyS** · Posted On: 1/11/2005 5:21pm

The technique I described was a gi technique.

If you want to pull guard, get your opponent in underhooks or overhooks and then pull him into your closed guard. Or grab a sleeve, put a foot on his hip and then pull guard. Don't just fall to your back and expect the guy to jump in there.

As far as other techniques from the knees, you can do as Yrkoon9 said and try the O-soto-gari from the knees. When you do this, make sure you turn in your body so he doesn't just push you straight backwards. If he does push you backwards you've got a great position to go straight into an armbar.

Or how about this:
You overhook his right arm with your left (or just grab at this elbow if you can't get the overhook). You grab his pants at his left knee and try and drive him onto his back like I first described. If he tries to counter that by pulling his left knee back, move your right hand to the outside of his right knee and do a knee-tap takedown by driving into him and blocking his knee with your hand.

**Gringo Grande** · Posted On: 1/11/2005 8:47pm

Oh my...I like the sounds of that last one Johnny. I'll try it on some of the lower ranks Thursday and then pull it on the instructor next week. Thank you again for the advice.

Gringo Grande

**Red Elvis** · Posted On: 1/12/2005 12:24am

Originally Posted by Bizzaro Root

ive just figured out recently that i sucks when i start from the knees and have a hard time getting guard up...

I'm sorry Bizzaro... but that is pretty funny! :la:

Anywhoo Gringo, can't help you 'cause I'm one of the short guys. (and I'm talking height here ya freaks!)

:thumbsup: