224967 Bullies, 3328 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

View Poll Results: Under what context do you PRIMARILY use cross-facing?

Voters
171. You may not vote on this poll
  • Defensively--to inhibit the other guy's aggression

    44 25.73%
  • Only to force a reaction from the other guy.

    48 28.07%
  • I'm a complete fucking tool that crossfaces at every given opportunity

    45 26.32%
  • I don't cross face.

    26 15.20%
  • Other

    8 4.68%
Results 41 to 50 of 142
Page 5 of 15 FirstFirst 12345 6789 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. VikingPower is offline
    VikingPower's Avatar

    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    4,993

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 1:52am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Call me a tool :)
  2. Boyd is offline
    Boyd's Avatar

    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cwcville
    Posts
    5,374

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 4:12am

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem with (this definition of) crossfacing is that you're doing something in training that doesn't require regular practice to get good at, yields an obvious result, and mostly hurts your training partner. Look at it in the context of the RNC. It's not too fucking hard to tell that you can facelock a guy when he tucks his chin, but...why would you? Either he'll lift his chin or he won't. What will you learn from that? Nothing, and you just pissed your partner off. Yeah, you'll get the RNC, but you surrendered the greatest treasure of all: friendship.

    I'm not speaking out against crossfacing because I do it all the time, just not for extended periods. If I get side mount on someone I'll drive my elbow into their throat, but if they show a strong defense towards it I'll let it go and move onto something else. Basic Jiu-Jitsu. But I see people in class that treat that **** like an ends to itself. It's a tool like any other, difference being that it causes your partner pain, so you should use it sparingly, and only when necessary. Don't fucking hurt your friends when you don't have to. Good rule of thumb to use throughout life.

    And re: injury vs. pain...the problem is that pain is the body's way of telling you "stop doing that, dipshit". By rights, if you're in any pain you should tap. I'm not saying this because I'm a *****. I'm saying this because I used to refuse to tap to pain-based techniques until my instructor put me in a chest compression and popped my sternum three days before a tournament. Even now I can still crack my chest as though it were my knuckles. Besides, I have 8,000 dollar teeth (see photo). I can't afford to be experimenting in seeing how much force it takes from someone's forearm to break my teeth.
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon
  3. Scrapper is offline
    Scrapper's Avatar

    Fear and bullets.

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Dayville, Connecticut, United States
    Posts
    4,286

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 12:31pm

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It is a tool to be employed where appropriate. In practice, mutual respect is teh rule, so if your partner doesn't WANT to be crossfaced and asks you not to, than use that as a wayt o handicap yourself and improvise.

    But as long as it is a legal, viable, technique...use it. These are combat sports, not massage therapy.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  4. Yrkoon9 is offline
    Yrkoon9's Avatar

    Brock Sampson

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Land of the Living
    Posts
    4,590

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 2:10pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Im trying to say that you're not really practicing martial arts if someone can just up and end the fight from the positions you're in.
    I have several things to say here. But let me first talk about this quote.

    Judo does not allow crossfacing. It does not allow facelocks to 'end' the fight. Is Judo not a martial art now? Because if we go by your definition it is not.

    We can take that a step futher and say that wrestling is not a martial art either. They don't allow submissions at all. Boxing isn't a martial art because they have no grappling. TKD must not be either since they dont allow teh grapple. Sambo can't be a martial art either since they dont allow chokes. And you certainly aren't practicing a martial art in BJJ because you aren't striking from the mount.

    OMG we have really narrowed the definition of martial arts to only those that allow fight ending moves~!

    But then again, those pussies in Pride don't allow headbutts and elbows. And the bitches in UFC have a huge list of things that aren't allowed. They can't be practicing martial arts there if they don't allow those fight ending moves. Pfft. We can't call it MMA anymore. We will call it - Bitches (Almost)Martial Arts. BMA for short.

    I think its safe to say that what you said earlier is wrong. And the only reason you said it is because of YOUR perspective on what should be allowed and what shouldn't be allowed. I tried to make this point earlier with the biting, fingerbending, eyegouging, etc. Those are fight enders too. We just don't do them. I had to extrapolate a bit further here to drive this point all the way home.

    The next thing I wanted to say is that in almost EVERY other 'martial art' there are things we don't do to our partners. Things we COULD do, and things we probably WILL do in competition or self defense. But they are things that are considered 'not cool' and abusive in training.

    Let's take a couple of examples. I'll draw upon my own experience here, but I am sure others can use their own to draw similar comparisons.

    In boxing, as I said earlier it is bad form to grind your glove laces in the other guys face. Its effective. It isnt going to 'hurt' someone. But it serves the exact same purpose as a crossface. It is uncomfortable and can be dangerous at times. But if you do it in boxing you are being a bitch. The same thing with sticking the thumb of my glove in your eye. Its a bit more extreme, but obviously you start doing that **** and people are going to be angry. Its awesome to get reactions, and is the fucking bomb for self defense. Holding and hitting? An art into itself! But in boxing its a nono. And rabbit punches. Highly effective for guys that 'tuck their head', like wrestlers do at times. But hitting to the back of the head is another nono. You can do it, but again - you are being uncool. ESPECIALLY to your training partners.

    Another instance. Muay Thai or kickboxing. When you are training with your partners there are things you just don't do. One of them would be to knee your partner in the face full force. It's legal and encouraged, right? And that upward slashing elbow? Absolutely awesome to break through a good defense. Jumping elbows too. Fucking awesome. Fight enders. .... But against a training partner? Hmmmm. Not such a good idea. You are going to run through training partners real quick. Sure you can drill these things, and even APPLY THEM LIBERALLY in sparring. But when you go overboard you can hamper your own training by being an asshole to your partners. Again, lets understand the difference between training and competition or self defense.

    BJJ we have things we don't do. Judo the same thing. Common courtesy and respect for our training partners. Now Judo is much more strict than BJJ, but both share certain similarities. Such as consideration. For example, 99% of all BJJ schools dont want their students to do the Rampage slam to get out triangles. Judo won't let you keep the triangle once your opponent stands up. But at least they ALLOW triangles. What a bunch of....lets see what was it again....'bitches'... ah yes, BITCHES those wrestlers must be if they don't even ALLOW a triangle choke from a 'fight ending position'. Are you getting my point here on perspective?
  5. Boyd is offline
    Boyd's Avatar

    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cwcville
    Posts
    5,374

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 2:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris
    Some of you really need to wrestle.
    Prior to my chest exploding, I would've agreed with you. Now I look at it as a pride issue. If you're bearing a huge wave of pain just to prove you can take it, then you're already in the red for getting fucked up. Unless you're looking to turn pro, it ain't worth it.
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon
  6. chaosexmachina is offline
    chaosexmachina's Avatar

    Unexpected Elbow

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,450

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 3:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA/Pankration

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well I am looking to turn pro... ;) My instuctor once told me that crossfacing is like getting body checked in hockey. You can't take it personally.
    "The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good I get, I'll never be as good as a wall." - Mitch Hedberg

    El Guapo says dance!
  7. Yrkoon9 is offline
    Yrkoon9's Avatar

    Brock Sampson

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Land of the Living
    Posts
    4,590

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 4:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry Osiris, that was probably the weakest defense of your previous quote I could have imagined. You are sliding further and further down the slippery slope.

    In fact I have to edit this after re-reading your post. You obviously have not read any of my posts. I never said 'ban' any moves because they hurt. And I never said I DON'T/WON'T use crossfacing.

    And if you are calling me a bitch because I refuse to apply crossfaces with reckless abandon than you are calling a lot of people bitches. You are calling all those Pride fighters bitches for not using the headbutt and elbows. You are calling Samboists bitches for not using chokes. You are calling boxers bitches for not using knees. And you are calling wrestlers bitches for not using submissions.

    And once again, that ridiculous arguement of preparing for 'teh street' is just that. Ridiculous. Your partners carry knives into your training sessions and suprise you with them when you are grappling? What about guns? Your buddies break into your house at 3am and start pounding your face while you are asleep in bed? Do your partners swarm your ass and beat you senseless while you are 1-on-1 grappling, just to increase the 'reality' of it? Because if you AREN'T doing these things than you aren't practicing 'teh street', and in effect 'real' martial arts. Where any fight ending technique should be legal and practiced. You are practicing a very limited rules engagement 1 on 1, which isn't anything like 'teh street'. Its the little fantasy scenario you want to create. Thinking that crossface is the very epitome of reality that seperates bitches from h@rdc0r3 is about the basest thing I have ever heard.
    Last edited by Yrkoon9; 1/09/2005 4:57pm at .
  8. Boyd is offline
    Boyd's Avatar

    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cwcville
    Posts
    5,374

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 5:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    HURRY UP CASH, I HAVEN'T BEEN STIFF FOR A WHILE
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon
  9. feedback is offline
    feedback's Avatar

    UAAAH!

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    4,082

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 5:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It depends on what we're doing. When rolling mostly to focus on technique, I never do that and I expect my partner to not do that either. It isn't constructive in that environment for either person. When it's "MMA style" or a competition, then yes, I use any tool they haven't told me not to use. Same for can openers and other "brutish" amateurish techniques.
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
  10. JohnnyS is offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    1,139

    Posted On:
    1/09/2005 6:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm getting confused about the definition of the cross-face.

    I use a cross-face to stop a takedown.
    I do cross-face side control where I have my top arm under his head, my shoulder against his jaw to stop him turning towards me.
    I do cross-face side control where I have my top arm under his head, and I've caught his left arm across his face so it puts pressure on his chest.

    I don't face-lock people.
    I don't do the "coffee-grinder" i.e. rubbing my elbow or forearm into the guy's jaw.

    Those last two techniques are bullshit moves. If someone wants to do those to me, they'd better expect me to go really hard back against them and depending on how pissed-off I am, they better hope I respect their tap. After that match and after I've finished hurting them back, that person has just lost a training partner in me.

    Those techniques don't "toughen people up", they just injure them for no good reason. They aren't going to make anyone who is good tap, they'll just piss them off and hurt them. I've seen one guy who got the "coffee-grinder" done to him in a competition, and the guy couldn't eat properly for three days, and couldn't eat meat for a week.

    By doing these techniques, you're not working on legitimate techniques. Does anyone think that Rickson, or Margarida, or Saulo, or Jacare would need to do those techniques to win? I don't, and I know they didn't get good by training those techniques either. I also know that the people I've seen use these techniques never got beyond blue/purple belt, because for them training wasn't about becoming more technical, but just about winning.
Page 5 of 15 FirstFirst 12345 6789 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.