Posted On:1/07/2005 2:41pm
Style: 10th Planet JJ
One of the most common arguments traditional and RBSD guys seem to have against training in a grappling style for self defence is that you, supposedly, don't ever want to go to the ground when fighting multiple attackers, as it limits your modility and is liable to get you stomped.
Now, even if we ignore the obvious flaw of this argument, the fact that against multiple attackers you're probably going on the ground anyways and not knowing what to do once there is suicide, there's another problem with it. Sometimes, at least, it is GODD to go to the ground when you're being stomped.
Here's an experience of mine on the matter. The last time I was involved in a multiple attacker situation, I got my ass beat bad. I may have told people about the incident before, I don't remember, but in any case, I wound up with a cracked rib and the side of my face bloodied up pretty bad. I was not trained in any sort of grappling back then.
Here's what happened: I got swarmed, attempted to throw some punches, even hit a couple of them, and then got tossed on the ground and surrounded by people trying to kick and stomp me. Now, I can safely say that no ammount of training in a striking art that I can reasonably imagine (short of Jet Li'esque magic) would have changed the outcome of that "fight". There simply wasn't a way for me to beat all of them, and I could not run away because I was with my girlfriend at the time who was wearing high heels and couldn't run very fast.
The only thing that SAVED me in that situation is that I isnstinctively grabbed one of the guys and dragged him down with me. I wound up rolling around with him, me holding on for dear life, and the rest of the people unable to kick or stomp me effectively because they were hitting their friend half the time.
I think this is the only thing that helped me survive relatively unhurt untill a few minutes later the police came and they all bolted. Had I not went ot the ground and used one of the attackers as a human shield, I would have been hurt severely - at least on of the people doing the kicking and stomping was wearing steel toes. That's where I got my rib cracked, I think.
Sometimes going to the ground with an opponent and getting stomped is much much better than going to the ground by yourself and getting stomped. Either way, going to the ground and getting stomped was, in that case, unavoidable. All my training later, I think that the best I could hope for would be the same outcome.
You say what about my rice?
Posted On:1/07/2005 2:47pm
Style: Shi Ja Quan
The only way to handle multiple attackers is to train for them, with ALL ranges of combat.
Anything you can do to save your bacon.
Fact is, when you get attacked by more than one person, more often than not, they have a plan, you need to think along their lines, to come up with an effective method to train for that situation.
And Grappling, both standing and ground, MUST be part of that.
Posted On:1/07/2005 2:51pm
When you can, yes, nike-jutsu is the way to go.
Posted On:1/07/2005 2:52pm
Should have used the Deathblossum, starfighter. A weapon of last resort.
Posted On:1/07/2005 2:53pm
Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo
I here Bike-fu has been deployed against 30+ attackers with some sucess.
Originally Posted by Stickx
It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
Posted On:1/07/2005 3:05pm
I couldn't run - I had my girlfriend with me and she was wearing heels. We tried to walk away and that didn't work. Instead, I had them occupied by kicking my ass while she made noise and got the cops to come. I think that was the correct thing to do at the time.
Ronin: No ammount of training would have saved me there, unless I really got t3h Ch1 pow3r. There was too many of them and little room to move around. I would assume that anyone short of Wanderlei Silva on roid rage would have been stomped in that situation.
But going back to my original point, had I not instincively done t3h grapple, I would have been stomped a hell of a lot worse.
Last edited by HAPKO3; 1/07/2005 3:13pm at .
Posted On:1/07/2005 3:10pm
Style: Wado Kai
I think you're point is a very good one, especially for a guy like me (my style is basically striking). There are times where I won't be able to control the scenario, and I will HAVE to go to the ground.
Probably a good idea to know what the hell to do when I'm down there.
Thanks for posting this.
Posted On:1/07/2005 3:13pm
Hapko, you misunderstood, I said that, with training for that kind of situation, you increase your chances of survival.
Not about stompping a mudhole on those boys, its about survival.
Posted On:1/07/2005 3:22pm
Originally Posted by Osiris
A small gang will not sneak up on you. All the time spent training to get stomped out could be better spent wind sprinting. As for the girlfriend, wearing shoes that cripple your ability to move is about as bright as wering your pants around your knees, entering rooms with one exit and several other deathtraps. I would've told her to take those foolish ass shoes off and MOVE.
Here's the situation.
We're walking home from the parking lot where we parked our car. It's a small back street in a pretty good neighbourhood, not cause for alarm whatsoever. Two cars pass, and I mistake one of the cars for belonging to my friend. I wave. Then next thing I know, tires screech and about 4-5 people pours out of both cars and pins us both to a fence. From the time when the cars stopped to when we were pinned, we did not have the time to run, nor did we have any reason whatsoever to expect an attack. As we're pinned, one of the guys starts talking ****. I tell him, "Sorry, man, I thought you were someone I knew". Immediately, there is a punch coming at my face. The rest is sort of a blur, escept for the fact that the girl I was with got away in the commotion, walked up to a building where we lived, and started screaming for someone to call the police, which they did.
There was nothing stupid that I did that caused all of that to take place. I was at a place where I had every reason to feel safe. It was really fucking random. I still have no idea whatsoever what the **** happened. I did realize what was going on and react a bit late, but, looking back, even if I had reacted immediately, I don't see that changing anything.
Posted On:1/07/2005 3:24pm
Ronin: fair enough.
I got thinking about this reading the next thread over (the one by a retarded Krav Maga guy) and realized that sometimes going to the ground is exactly what you want against multiple attackers, contrary to all the theory that gets tossed around.
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