Thread: Judo-throws for BJJ
1/11/2005 3:49am, #1
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
- Stockholm, Sweden
- Sandbagged BJJ white belt
Judo-throws for BJJ
Since my BJJ-club is of the "always start from the kneess" and "no-takedowns EVAAAAR"-variety, I've decided to join the local judo club one night a week in order to brush up on my old throws. For those of you who use judo throws in BJJ, which should I work on? The ones I've seen used in competitions are uchi mata and ippon seionage, but I think osoto-gari might be good as well. Is there anything else to consider when using throws in BJJ as opposed to judo?I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.
"Step away," I hissed.
1/11/2005 3:55am, #2
harai- goshi is good too....just try not to fall on uke's ankle...
1/11/2005 5:15am, #3
hrm.. Right. This reply will be more my own opinion than actual sound advice, so don't put too much faith in it.
o soto gari seems ok. I think o goshi and koshi guruma too perhaps. I'm partial to most judo throws :P . I remember seeing a BJJ player vs. a Judo player in a vid that for once wasn't made to promote either of the styles. Don't remember who won, hehe. But the takedown was by the judo player with harai tsurikomi ashi. Basically just judo :pMore human than human is our motto.
1/11/2005 6:34am, #4Originally Posted by PoleFighter
In bjj I really don't suggest you use throws that give you back to your opponent (tai-otoshi, ippon seio nage for example). because if the throw doesnt work properly you may find your opponent sink in the hooks and slap on a cheeky RNC. Don't really bother with sacrifice throws either.
When going for a takedown in a bjj comp remember the basic double leg and single legs are your best friends. Judo works the best in bjj when both people are tied up and all the legtrips/sweeps come into play.
Techniques you shoul concentrate on:
Sasae tsurikomi ashi
Some of these will land you in half guard but the takedown+passsing the guard will get you valuable points as well as putting you on top.
Hope that helps.
1/11/2005 8:01am, #5
Judo is taught in a very specific wayl, and it's not necessarily a good idea to try and second guess it. The throws that you are taught as a white belt are not very useful in sparring as they are not necessarily easy to pull off.
The reason they are taught early on is that they are easy to understand and teach prinicples of throwing. The throws that you are most likely to use depend on you body type and, weight, height and style - and you'll not know what is best for you until you've got some experience.
Just as you would think that someone turning up to a BJJ school to learn "a few chokes and armlocks" wouldn't get very far - Judo is a lot more than knowing the mechanics of a few given throws.
Osoto-gari is a prime example. Outside of Japan, very few people use this as a primary throw as it is quite difficult to throw someone with EXCEPT as a counter.
A lot of Judoka have a big (hip or leg) throw that they use a lot and will have worked it out for several situations, directions of motion etc. Often you'll want a left handed throw, a sacrifice as well as your foot techniques.
1/11/2005 9:46am, #6
I've never been able to pull off o soto, especially in BJJ. BJJ players tend to lean forward a lot in he clinch, which makes o soto harder. For me, uchi mata, ko soto gake and tai otoshi work reasonably well. Hiza guruma is also a good one to work one.There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)
1/11/2005 10:00am, #7
Part of the reason is that o-soto gari is very often the first throw you learn. As such, the entry to it is ingrained in you like no other - therefore as soon as you see it, you know what's coming.
1/11/2005 10:05am, #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
Instead of focusing on what other people like, I would suggest you find what suits you and focus on that. Guys with longer legs like uchi mata, quick guys that are shorter might rpefer kata guruma. You need to find two or three throws that you are comfortable with, then work on using them in combinations. Try to get at least one goof forward, and one backward throw and then use them together.
That being said, throws that give your back to the opponent are not generally such a good idea.Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
1/11/2005 10:56am, #9
They are relatively low risk, high percentage throws. You don't turn your back, or expose yourself too greatly.
The one thing about Judo throws that sucks in BJJ is that many of them require posture. And if you posture up in BJJ you are ripe for leg takedowns. So that hunched over, hips back kind of stand up is prevelant. Ippon Seoi can be suicidal as you might get 2 pts for the throw, but lose 4 pts for them taking your back if they hooked in as you threw.
Personally I use Ouchi and KoUchi to great effect on those BJJ guys who have their hips back. I just PULL PULL PULL PULL the whole time, eventually they overcompensate on their pull back. Ouchi. If I PULL PULL PUSH PUSH PUSH they overcompensate forward and are ripe for KoUchi, Uchimata, etc.
I have had varying degrees of success with sacrifice throws. If they get shut down, you have guard. No biggie, at least you didn't lose 2pts to THIER throw.
1/11/2005 11:16am, #10
To say that you can't use sacrifice throws or stand with your back to the opponent is a broad generalisation which I diasgree with.
Reality is - you can use any type of throw, in the correct situation.
I have used seoi nage with no problem, if you do it correct you don't get hooked,
With regards to the posture - Firstly, you want to dominate in the grip fight , get a dominant grip and work to get the opponent into the posture you want him in.
Secondly - you can do leg graps as well, nothing stops you.
Thirdly - fighting in whatever style means that you need to create situations where you can execute your technique. You need to react to what you opponent does ( ideally he does what you force him to do ) But - throws which work in certain cirucumstances do not work in the next and so on.
I think the problem is - that you want to practice your throws only once a week.
I don't care wether you do that in a judo or BJJ class. But to develop a technique ready for competition, you have to spend a lot of time with drills , repetitions and randori/sparring.
I doubt that you will easily develop good technique from once a week training.
My advice is - practice more than once a week.