I think that wing chun was "in its prime" when people everywhere knew and fought using kung fu.
Muay thai and judo still have answers for the way people currently fight. Same thing with boxing and of course, the ever popular BJJ.
wing chun is ideal for fighting on narrow chinese boats. if you are a chinese boatman and looking for a form of self-defense, wing chun simply cannot be beat. does that powerful MT roundhouse kick work when you're on an unsteady rocking gondola facing a guy with a wooden pole? i submit that it does not.
Spot on, but when did Wing Chun wear a uniform?
Originally Posted by 5FingazofDeath
Wing Chun does have its problems. The biggest problem I think being training methods. The strength of the system I feel is in the concepts. Granted, these have to be APPLIED but with good training this is possible.
I agree with a lot of people's problems with WC I just think they tend to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I like WC. At the moment it's the only art I train in. I know lots of schools suck. Any art taught without contact sparring and resistance will suck. Even MT. Here is what I think the problems are with WC _even when it's taught well_:-
1) No groundwork
2) The only kick taught for use above waist-level feels really awkward and unnatural (you kick them in the ribs with your heel and your toes pointing out. If you find this hard to visualise, imagine doing a side kick. Now imagine doing the same kick with your foot rotated in exactly the _opposite_ direction and the hips roughly square to the front.
3) The weapons that are taught in the system (butterfly knives and long pole) don't really have legal or easy to conceal alternatives that would make the training practical for a modern western country (unlike say, Kali, where small knives and simple sticks are taught).
I tried combining Tang Soo Do with Wing Chun. Too hard to mix Wing Chun with other styles b/c WC is hell bent on efficiency and no wasted motions - lots of hip usage in TSD so didn't work well with Wing Chun principles.
Originally Posted by celticdragon03
I went to a Wing Chun school in a ghetto. Lots of large black guys waiting to spar which we did w/o gear only gloves sometimes even barenuckle. Always ended up looking like kickboxing - most ppl would fall back to what ever they did before cuz it was easier to generate power with systems that don't consider revving up a wasted motion.
WCL, I'm impressed this forum is actually talking civilly and theres no goddamn lineage wars going on in here cough leungtingsux cough cough.
Originally Posted by wingchunnewbie
good alternative to butterfly swords are extending batons (like the ones cops carry). Theres no handguard tho or jutte on it but its better than nothing.
use a mop for long pole and claim ur a janitor
All of the sources I have looked at give the same relative history of wing chun. So I assume that this is the relative truth. As for wing chun being one of the quickest roads to self-defense, in my experience sparring wing chun fighters it takes them considerably much less time to use their fighting techniques they learned, as opposed to other CMA styles.
Originally Posted by Dochter
I do not know what this style is, but I wasn't necessasarily talking about combining styles per say, but switching from one style to the other once you are closer in on your opponent. My opinion might be a little biased as the only martial arts I have experience sparring like this is Kung-fu.
Originally Posted by EternalRage
Quick note... I wouldn't say that MT has only 3 punches, 2 elbows, 2 kicks and 2 knees. That is to do it a disservice.
You can apply that analogy to most arts, if you want to break down all moves into their bases.
Also, you cannot really train MT without sparring and resistance... It just cannot be done and any school that would even attempt it is a McDojo, plain and simple. I mean, how do you learn how to clinch without doing it with someone else, again and again.
Back to the point... I am just learning about WC, I don't know much about it.
Chi sao is not WC's bread and butter. Duncan Leung told us, it was basically crap. You'll never fight with it. Alot of WC taught has two main problems.
1. Waaaaay too traditional in many aspects. It was taught in China, where other people were using Kung Fu. Not Bjj, not Karate, Boxing, and certainly not the, "I'm going to run screaming and flailing fighting system done by 300lb men." Only when WC is modified to incorporate idea of modern systems of fighting can it be used to fight in a realistic diverse setting. Ever seen a WC practicioner get annihlated by a boxer? I have. They tried to trap, grab, and other assorted crap. Needless to say, a modern strategem is needed for fighting someone of Boxing. This could be Grappling, lower leg , midsection, groin attacks to drop the hands and one can go from there.
2. There's a lack of fighting knowledge, nutrition, weight training, and over all fighting usage. Many places are just too technical and more often than not have horrid technique. They have two step drills, alright for practice, bad in practicality. And limited if no sparring.
The WC school I was in, had 3 excellent drills that esposed using the technique in a combat scenario.
The first being the circle. One would stand in the middle of the circle and be attacked in the circle by the sequence of people standing on the outside. Depending on what was being worked. The person would attack, and we were able to use the technique we had learned on someone trying to hurt us. This greatly depending upon the person attacking us, but before most of the seniors left and the whiney sissy people came, they were trying to hurt us. In our senior classes, the attackers would attack us with anything, we had to respond how we felt best.
The 2nd was the Box. We had a 7 foot wide by 3 feet deep area to stand in. Three people in front of us would attack in 1-2-3-2-1 order continously. We had nowhere to move so we had to strike back and keep them from beating us into the wall.
The third was similar to sparring but, one of us wasn't allowed to attack back. A person would attack us continously and we were given only a few set moves to keep the person off of us. The attacker could use anything they wanted to try and get through the defenses.
We originally did alot of these drills, then it just turned to crap as people left, the school moved, and we did less and less of pragmatic fighting based things and more endless technique drills which is lame when you've been doing it for 3+ years for 4 days a week.