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  1. Lefty is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/21/2005 11:06pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Amp
    I don't disagree...let me rephrase...I think the problem with holding your hands too close to your body is that they can get tangled (which leads to getting trapped).
    Yeah I agree that's why use 1 and a half fist distance so I have the half a fist worth of extra space to get my other fist behind/over or avoid a pin.

    For example, if they grab my arm and step into chop the throat and I need to get my other hand back to cover the throat or counter punch ASAP.
    Last edited by Lefty; 12/21/2005 11:08pm at .
  2. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/21/2005 11:14pm

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Amp
    Our footwork is about as different as you can get than yours...not implying better...just very different.

    I admit I have no experience at all w/ the EBMAS system or footwork...but I am having the hardest time understanding how a 1-legged stance could be mobile enough to be ideal in a fight?
    One legged is kinda givng the wrong impresion, but I have seen a Si-Hing of mine use adduction with the front foot off the ground pull himself around the room. Not very easy or practical on first glance, but I have seen a one legged stance be mobile.

    But let me expalin this better. If a Badguy steps up to attack me, then they are close enough to be hit back without me having to move to them very far. I only need to turn or pull with what you guys call the drag foot step, which moves me about 1 to 2 feet. If he backs away faster then I move, then he goes out of range and is not a threat anymore. I remain positioned to spring into attack as soon as he comes into range again. Bad Guy however must position himself in range, then attack. So the idea is that I am always prepared to attack, and let him come to me.

    Or, if he goes away fast, the pulling leg can become the new 100% leg and the rear leg swings up to front to protect. I can move around pretty fast like this. Its kinda like a motorcycle, where as the 50/50 stlye stance is more like a car.

    http://download.minidocs.net/
    video 13 shows some of this one legged stance. It is more about 100% weight then one leg standing.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  3. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 12:04am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In light of the recent drama and what not, I'd just like to congratulate you wing chun chaps for maintaining a vaguely interesting and non-political discussion without degenerating into 'my sifu sbetter n your sifu coz e went to Yipp Mand's grayve n e done a whizz on it twice and nobody was lookin or nuffin.' (and despite my trolling efforts.)

    So, well done.
    Please, carry on analysing fighting with a magnifying glass and abacus. ;)
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
    Scramble Stuff
  4. meng_mao is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 12:11am

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     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    http://download.minidocs.net/
    video 13 shows some of this one legged stance. It is more about 100% weight then one leg standing.
    The guy in black has some of the weakest punching technique I've seen. The weakness seems to stem from the one-legged stance and arm-punching. Not to say that either of those preclude strong punches, just make this guy's punches really weak.
    What style is the guy in the gi using?
    Last edited by meng_mao; 12/22/2005 12:23am at . Reason: more detail
  5. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 12:43am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    The guy in black has some of the weakest punching technique I've seen. The weakness seems to stem from the one-legged stance and arm-punching. Not to say that either of those preclude strong punches, just make this guy's punches really weak.
    What style is the guy in the gi using?
    The guy in black , me, is doing lite sparring, so yes the punches are "weak" but I would rather call them lite.... I have used these "weak" punches to launch a home invader 12 feet through the air.

    but thanks for the feed back.... :new_xmas:

    o ya, supercrap, I never even noticed this drama stuff people keep talking about, I am to busy trying to actually post real information.....but thanks for noticing. It does seem that quite a few of us from different --in--un branches are starting to work together regardless of lineage. We all have alot to offer each other. :love4:

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  6. meng_mao is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 1:08am

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     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    The guy in black , me, is doing lite sparring, so yes the punches are "weak" but I would rather call them lite.... I have used these "weak" punches to launch a home invader 12 feet through the air.
    Not to take anything away from your skills, but your partner was throwing faster and stronger and still safely, and what I would definitely consider light punches.
  7. Lefty is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 2:05am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    It must be 100%, zero percent to move the zero leg. If you are even 10/90 then you must shift the 10 back or you can be swept, pulled down, ect...So to kick, step, turn, whatever, you must first shift the weight. The 100% idea is that you do not have to waste time shifting.
    I understand that each step is a controlled fall from leg to leg. So when we take one step we lift all our weight off one leg (0%) and put (100%) on the other leg.

    Being 90% back / 10% forward is good if they try to kick you and you can flick your leg around. It isn’t good for projecting power forward.

    Being 10% back / 90% forward is good for charging to close the gap (eg. while punching). Then you just drag the back leg up and you smashed into them with your whole body weight in a controlled way. This is a technique I’ve seen EB demonstrate.

    After this you’d want to root to the earth with both feet for stability. A 60/40 spread can take the risk of a front leg attack away, while still allowing for enough behind a punch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    You are correct about 3 points, but if I lift a point, can the other one still stand alone? that is the concept. Since the toes and heel can be 2 points, and these bear the weight, the front leg can be used as a third balance point, but I do not need to shift weight over there. My fist, defense, kick, or knee can also be balance points in this way, but if these find only empty air, my 100% leg can still hold me up.
    Put on boxing gloves and try fighting someone standing on only one leg at a time (you can swap legs). Let them stand on two legs and no restrictions.

    Traditional CMA has strength and physique development ideas which focus around developing leg strength first to give you stability, core power, balance, pivoting power, and most importantly striking power. This is because most of someone’s punching power is coming from their ability to strike with their whole body which is rooted to the earth like a tree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    IRAS stance has 100% in each leg, or "200% balance". Thats my own saying but you can use it . At any time a chunner can move instantly to either leg, due to the way the balance point is moved around. If the IRAS is two wide, then you need to do a little shift over first. Try it. So weight is moved by stance structure shifting the balance point around.

    So, with that concept in mind, WT applys adduction stance to all stances and footwork, making instance shifting from foot to foot possible. Even if you are at 40/60 or something, if the Chun is on, it is really 100/100.
    I find the “200% balance” idea is a bit misleading, and so is the “100% / 100%”. Try standing on a weight scale and doubling your weight its impossible.

    My view is here you are saying to dynamically shift weight between the legs as required to move. So all I am saying is there are kinds of weight transferences that are valid depending on your action too eg.:

    . Shifting weight to the front leg when projecting force forward and closing the gap.

    . Balancing evenly on both legs when required for pivoting/grappling/blocking/striking and to gain stability and trying to use all your leg strength evenly.

    . Being slightly heavier on the back leg so if they kick your front leg it wont break and you can quickly flick out kicks and do chi gerk and avoid sweeps.
    Last edited by Lefty; 12/22/2005 2:16am at .
  8. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 2:09am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    Not to take anything away from your skills, but your partner was throwing faster and stronger and still safely, and what I would definitely consider light punches.
    cool, but what landed? If you mean faster in the air, ok....

    and he continued to back away untill he ran out of room over and over. I am not sure about generating power backing away? I only train to go forward or try to hold my ground. seriously, did you watch the whole vid? I admit I look slopppy as hell, but the only time I go back into IRAS stance is to restart the exchange because he can't do anything else.


    when he ran out of room at the edges I stopped attacking.

    Also, I was working on single punches. I think I chain punch only one time, and with no contact, just to remind him I was not following up my slow single punchs.

    I am sure he could generate enough power to knock me out and visa versa. It was just for fun at a Mini Pattycake throwdown. It is just something to look at for reference. Proves nothing either way.

    Also, he had no cup, so I had to watch kicking his groin, and later I found out groin shots are not allowed at all anyway, at throwdowns. No elbows were allowed, and I was trying to just do straight punches and thrust kicks. Kinda an experiment on my part.

    I have been an Instructor since 1997 so I have developed an excellent skill at stopping my punches on the surface. doesn't work to good to bloody up your students all the time. but, it also goes against me when sparring. Patty cake in a different way.
    Last edited by Dr._Tzun_Tzu; 12/22/2005 2:12am at .

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  9. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 2:18am

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I gotta go to sleep. I read what ya saying Lefty. Where did you see EB have weight/balance on the front leg?

    I think we are working around the same thing with different words. 10/90 i would think can be seen as having no balance lost in the front leg, but 40/60 or 50/50 would have weight and balance commited to the front leg to the point of being a liability. But 50/50 could be the same as my 100/100 concept, if your structure and stance training creates a body shape that allows instant shifting.

    I'll get into more tommorrow. Maybe make some Pics....:-)

    Latosa Escrima is 100% front stance with the so called 50/50 concept. just to wet your appitite..... :tongue8:

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  10. meng_mao is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/22/2005 3:27am

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     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    and he continued to back away untill he ran out of room over and over. I am not sure about generating power backing away? I only train to go forward or try to hold my ground. seriously, did you watch the whole vid? I admit I look slopppy as hell, but the only time I go back into IRAS stance is to restart the exchange because he can't do anything else.

    It is just something to look at for reference. Proves nothing either way.
    You're right, it depends on what we're discussing.
    As far as how to do a one legged stance, yes, that
    is clearly demonstrated.

    As fas as whether a marching in, straight punches strategy would always work, that certainly can't be
    proven either way by the video.
    I definitely checked out all the vids. In
    http://download.minidocs.net/download_movies/17.mp4,
    the clinch seems to take away a lot of the progress
    made by coming forward with straight punches.

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