My current opinions on wing chun

**Astrosmurf** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 4:11am

"Attacking with the bong sau" would to me mean actually trying to do damage with the bong sau shape.

**Ronin** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 6:17am

There are much better things to do with a Bong than attack someone.

**Astrosmurf** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 6:52am

I know, just trying to clear up the semantics of hitting "from" and "with".

**supercrap** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 7:14am

Wing chun people just can't help themselves can they? It's page frikkin 20!

**I aint punchy!?** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 5:27pm

Since Bong Sau is meant to be a transitional movement and not really a shape, then attacking with it is fine. But who cares, you get the idea.

**Dr._Tzun_Tzu** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 7:33pm

Originally Posted by Lefty

I am driving my elbow into the centre of their chest as I rotate the bong sao into a fisted tahn sao with full force.

So I am hitting immediately after rolling from the bong sau and dragging their arm down with my elbow as I roll down. I also hook with the foot as I step in so they cant step back. Then after the roll, they are pinned and unable to get away.

In WT this would be called an application of Kwan Sau, sometimes called a rolling back fist with a lop? The term Bong Sau is very specific in WT, it is the rolling action of the arm into the shape from many famous photographs.

This is from the hook discussion but it can work. Below is a direct application from the Lifting punch in Chum Kiu, staged for image capture. Lefty, does your move start like this, but go over the top in the third image?

for the hook , or to see this as a hook, the same event may start from outside, using double man sau into double jut, then lifting punch over the top from the side.

**Lefty** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 9:50pm

Yeah its the roll over from bong sao which ends up dragging the opponent down and pinning them. Whereas in that final photo they do a grab and lift for the opening to punch the chin.

IMO I prefer to use the pivoting power of bong sao and my weight to drag down rather than lift against their weight and gravity as shown in that series.

The idea is you use attacking footwork and intentions with the bong sao because you step in and crash into them and then drag down with your whole body weight into a pinned position where you are chambered to uppercut, and have also trapped or swept the lead leg.

Bong sao can work well also just when you want to crash into someone and pin them high on their arm. Like try stepping into the heavy bag and defending it with a full force bong sao roll. (Then try doing it with a punch for comparison.) The structure of bong sao is extremely strong. Its a very effective forearm/elbow strike if you are stepping into something or want to go through it.

**meng_mao** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 11:03pm

Originally Posted by supercrap

Wing chun people just can't help themselves can they? It's page frikkin 20!

Just curious, how many people set the posts/page to 40?

**Dr._Tzun_Tzu** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 11:30pm

Originally Posted by Lefty

Yeah its the roll over from bong sao which ends up dragging the opponent down and pinning them. Whereas in that final photo they do a grab and lift for the opening to punch the chin.

IMO I prefer to use the pivoting power of bong sao and my weight to drag down rather than lift against their weight and gravity as shown in that series.

The idea is you attack with the bong sao in a general way because you step in and crash into them and then drag them into a pinned position where you are chambered to uppercut and have trapped or swept the lead leg.

Bong sao can work well just when you want to crash into someone and pin them high on their arm or smack em in the head with the elbow as you punch. Like try stepping into the heavy bag and delivering a full force bong sao. (Then try doing it with a punch for comparison.) The structure of bong sao is extremely strong. Its a very effective forearm/elbow strike if you are stepping into something or want to go through it.

Cool, I see what you are saying and I agree with it. In WT it is called Lan sau, or Bar Arm. Kinda a Fak, Forearm strike, elbow strike, Man sau, and Bong Sau all in one....then you go with the feel of it.

PS- Bruce Lee was really big on what you are talking about.

:usa2:

**Lefty** · Posted On: 12/16/2005 11:52pm

I like to use both bong sao and lahn sao pins in sparring. They are similar movements but work a bit differently.

With the lahn sao you pin their arm into their body with the fore arm as you step in. This often feels like being hit by their elbow/forearm followed by a push/pin with the whole body.

With the bong sao pin I mentioned you are pinning down as you slam down (and in) with the elbow as you step in.

So the vectors of force are a bit different.

But yes you can also use bong sao as a straight in pin like the lahn sao pin you described.