223779 Bullies, 3473 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 751 to 760 of 826
Page 76 of 83 FirstFirst ... 26667273747576 77787980 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 5:39am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you come to the throwdown you don't have to do full contact striking or MMA if you don't fancy it. You can just go light or stick to grappling.
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  2. Kamon Guy is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    390

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 5:39am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    Neither would I. That's why I put it in quotes. It's all the Wing Chun websites and other WC practitioners even on this very thread who call it "advanced".
    Back in the era of Yip Man, knowing the third form was considered 'advanced' as it was only usually taught closed door. I heard that Yip Man wouldn't teach Chum Kil to students who had not trained for any less than 4 years of wing chun. Even then, they would have to be of a high standard. So by the time you learned Bil jee you were going to have been training for around 15 years!
    This has built a mythos around the form. It is not advanced in the way that many people think - you could teach a child the movements. It is what you put into it (energy. power, etc) that must be a good standard.

    Nowadays most people learn the third form after about three years of training and it annoys me because they are rushing it. In Kamon, the knife form is considered the most advanced piece of wing chun to master.
  3. Kamon Guy is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    390

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 5:41am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    If you come to the throwdown you don't have to do full contact striking or MMA if you don't fancy it. You can just go light or stick to grappling.
    Sounds cool. Are there ever any near Sutton? Who monitors it?
    I could arrange one for my area if that is any help
  4. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Oxford, UK
    Posts
    6,526

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 5:45am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    Sounds cool. Are there ever any near Sutton? Who monitors it?
    I could arrange one for my area if that is any help
    Ordinary Bullshido members organise them. The one in Oxford is being organised by me and another guy from the club I train at who posts here as 'Liokault'.

    Organising a throwdown in your area would be an excellent contribution to the site. Have a look in the 'Throwdown' section of the forum to see if there's anything nearer to home and to get a feel for what people get upto at throwdowns (there are video clips!).
    !!RENT SPACE HERE FOR 10 VBUCKS PER LINE PER MONTH!!

    !! PM ME FOR SPEEDY SERVICE !!

    Sponsored by our first customer: Repulsive Monkey



    I <3 Sirc.
  5. I aint punchy!? is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    686

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 6:10am


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There are some major problems with WC:
    1/ attacking while charging someone might work but vertical fist chain punching that protects the head (the standard 'rolling punches' attack) cannot be applied to the opponents body effectively. So it is easy to counter by raising the arms and ducking it. When this occurs the WC guy is wide open to be taken down and stomped by a good ground fighter.
    2/ The main damage done by straight jabs is done by closing. You can only close once. The extra punches might keep the opponent out and thats it.
    3/ Very limited retreating footwork (if any) and almost no side-to-side footwork... this puts the WCer at a tactical disadvantage if they find it difficult to close because the other person has good explosive retreating footwork, and powerful kicks and punches.
    4/ A huge quantity of the standard WC curriculum assumes that the opponent has their arms in front of their body a la the typical WC guard. If anything this is a peculiarity of certain styles of kung fu and of limited application to styles that keep their fists chambered. This covers most of the area of 'chi sau' and 'arm trapping'.
    5/ Having guard hands that are extended in front of the body means that they aren't chambered for punching. The power generated by moving the forward hand into a jab is small, the further backhand (the one normally kept at around the forehands elbow distance) has slightly more power. This means that the backhand is the only useful one for striking... if your opponent has their arms back they can strike effectively with both arms, yet you take them on with only one ready?
    6/ A culture of suspicion over full contact training methods means that WC has not really screened its stuff for BS... but this is probably true of most TMAs.

    I could go on.
  6. Lefty is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    646

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 6:49am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure IMO these problems could be solved by:

    Having it sparring based full contact wearing boxing gloves as the main focus.

    Use pivoting from the feet, and striking the body with uppercuts, and chamber in more of a guard close to the body with the elbows tucked right in. As drills instead of doing forms as the main thing.

    Tuck the head forward and have a slightly wider more leg power oriented kind of stance.

    Inclusion of forward and backward circular footwork and punching cardio drills.

    Separation of Wing Chun the striking art from Wing Chun the grappling art and the creation of safe competition formats for each and both together.
    Last edited by Lefty; 12/14/2005 6:52am at .
  7. I aint punchy!? is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    686

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 7:00am


     Style: Arnis, WC, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty
    Tuck the head forward and have a slightly wider more leg power oriented kind of stance.
    Yeh this is something I should have added... but its not a singular problem with WC.

    Most TCMAs teach to keep the neck straight and head held upright with the chin up... this is a big problem if someone hits you with a good punch to the chin... head swings around and easy KO.
  8. Tabogganwheel is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    91

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 7:18am


     Style: WSL Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem with lowering the head in Wing Chun is that it reduces the support behind the punches. Many of the concepts rely on an upright body position for ground support.
    As for footwork, I find moving around quite simple. The Wing Chun footwork is very adaptable, and I generally find bridging a gap to not be too difficult against a karate or TKD style kicker.
  9. grond is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    ATX
    Posts
    1,099

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 11:45am


     Style: wingy chingy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    I have made no specific claims anywhere as to any particular level of completeness or depth of understanding. I have done nothing more than offer my own personal observations and opinions and on this particular thread I was even asked at one point.
    Your observations about wing chun are fairly in-depth and critical in several places--obviously you have some personal understanding of the system. I disagree with some of what you've said.......therefore I mentioned that your understanding of the system may not be as complete as you think. You don't have to devolve this conversation into legalese just because I'm disagreeing with you dude.


    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    Neither would I. That's why I put it in quotes. It's all the Wing Chun websites and other WC practitioners even on this very thread who call it "advanced".
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    Put it another way, counting techniques is a waste of time. How much gong fu you have put into what you have is what counts.
    Who's counting techniques? I think you're being stubborn on this point Omar-I'm not disagreeing with the idea of training kungfu/hard work/relaxation+focus/concentration and putting that into your movements. I'm just saying that you should have the appropriate tools for most situations.

    And if we're going to start counting techniques........baji might need only 2 forms but you said yourself that hung gar needs 4.........and you haven't criticized it for unnecessary movements or not 'sticking to the basics'. I'm not really familiar with the different baji and hung gar forms, but it doesn't seem unreasonable for wc to have one form out of three(four if you count the dummy) containing some 'emergency' techniques among others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    I can see it just fine. It just doesn't interest me. I was asked why I was so interested in SLT and what my opinions were on the others. I gave them. As they relate to me and my situation, the only one truly worth learning is SLT. I didn't say there was anything wrong with the others. I just don't care for them. They're just not as important.
    If they don't interest you, thats ok. But I'm curious- if SLT was worth learning then why don't you practice it? And actually, you did say there was something wrong with the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    All this "emergency" stuff. extra deadly techniques, special tactics...etc...all bullshit. No basic gong in your moves and it don't mean ****. None of it will work. You will collapse under pressure like the deerboxer that everyone says you are.
    "It does not matter who the master is. It does not matter what the face looks like. The masters are of the Qimen school of qigong/meditation which is related to Zen. The master wears white robes, and the predecessor master wears bright gold robes. The qimen school travels the univers and is not restricted to what paradise they live in. It has many masters" -Serious Harm
  10. Lefty is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    646

    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 6:27pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabogganwheel
    The problem with lowering the head in Wing Chun is that it reduces the support behind the punches. Many of the concepts rely on an upright body position for ground support.

    In the pivoting for power idea I talked about the weight is on the side that needs the power in the instant the elbow is on the centreline during a short range jab. I've seen this pivoting idea used in WC - however, the head was held straight like you'd expect in TMA.

    My view is that the weight moves forward during this kind of punching action so having the head forward doesn't hurt this kind of power generation and works well in the full contact sparring I do. But I'll try doing it with head straight for comparison and see.

    In defense of WC not tucking the head: In WC I was told to always chamber a hand back on the centre-line to protect the neck/chin area, while in all the other TMA's I've done this was never addressed.
    Last edited by Lefty; 12/14/2005 9:27pm at .

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.