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  1. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 12:46am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    its advanced.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  2. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 12:47am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Biu Jee?
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  3. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 12:54am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yes, I think the idea of what a progression of forms is lost on some people. Almost all the moements in BT are allready present in the other two forms. In WT students are given everything as drills and excersises to complement the first two forms. The third form adds polish. That is why it is "Advanced".

    Not for its secrets, but because you must have a degree of mastery in something before you start it. It then changes the flavor or "polish" of what you allready have. I don't know how else to say it....

    Omar, does what you have learned have something like this with the forms?

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  4. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 1:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Somewhat.

    I have to get back to work in a moment.

    I always get dragged into these WC threads because it's the only southern stuff around to talk about. I'd love to **** around on a 50 page thread about Hung Gar but no one ever talks about that. Before JFS showed up there was hardly anyone else here who even trained it. In a way, that's something I like about it. Most of the Hung Gar people I have personally known don't seem to give a **** about the talk. We like to talk about "gong fu" or even "shaolin gongfu" but seldom seem so speak about anything that style specific.

    I often wonder, on these WC threads, how much most WC people have bothered to get out and see what's out there. Not just with boxers and Muay Thai or BJJ people but with other CMA stuff, especially the southern stuff. If they did, I think many people would get over the "specialness" of WC real quick. It's pretty cool but at the end of the day it's just another variation on a theme.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  5. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 1:11am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Total agreement. as CMA, Nothing special, but maybe unique. Atleast the linear approach of WT.

    My vague impression is that CMA in general has many forms, which you can start with any one, and as you learn more you advance in understanding. WC went linear, with a start point and end point, which got even more linear under Leung Ting in the West.

    I like going outside, and which is why EBMAS has both WT and Latosa Escrima, because I get a new perspective on the stuff I do, since we are all approaching the same goal, with 2 arms, 2 legs, and one head.....

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  6. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 2:00am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But it's not truly linear. And the heavy focus on centerline theory, while not exclusive to, is certainly a characteristic of, southern styles in particular.

    You won't find much discusion of it in most northern styles or even in all southern styles. (like Choi Li fut for example).

    Every CMA style is different. Some have a lot of forms, some very few. Baji has very few. Baguazhang has very few. Taijiquan generally only has 1 for Yang and the derivitives of Yang. Long Fist on the other hand has endless forms. So does Choi Lu Fut. JFS said Hung Gar in his lineage has 10 but he only really teaches 2 of them. My personal opinion is that Hung Gar is pretty solid with 3 in the long term but would still want 4 in particular to feel complete.

    There's not such a clear progression in the forms of Hung Gar as there is with Wing Chun or with Baji which has only really 3 main ones and a couple other rarely seen ones. Going from a strictly structural perspective, I think I agree with JFS's assesment. Tid Sien and Fu Hok and you are good to go. Fu Hok gives you all the basic techniques and tactics. Tid Sien gives you the gong.

    I always figured Escrima was a good match for WC because of it's teaching methodology more than anything else. The Kali I trained also was structured around angles and leverage the way WC is. Very abstract and conceptual. Learning to see the angles is very similar to learning how to take advantage of centerline stuff.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  7. Astrosmurf is offline
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    Lightweight

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 2:05am

    supporting member
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omar
    I often wonder, on these WC threads, how much most WC people have bothered to get out and see what's out there. Not just with boxers and Muay Thai or BJJ people but with other CMA stuff, especially the southern stuff. If they did, I think many people would get over the "specialness" of WC real quick. It's pretty cool but at the end of the day it's just another variation on a theme.
    WC has been spread around the world much more than the other styles. And it has been marketed much harder. Bruce Lees popularity has probably boosted the interest also.
    I remember when I first looked around for CMA to learn where I lived, I found three different _ing _un and some guys doing what they called "Northern Shaolin". Nothing more.
    Nowadays there is some Hung Gar precence here (they are affiliated with some canadian guy named Kautzman, I don't know much about them). We also have a "monk" from Shaolin operating the Shaolinsi Wushuguan.
  8. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 3:41am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Thanks, that's interesting to know. It's rare to come across people who apply WC in open competition.

    I did WC for about 2.5 years, but we hardly ever sparred and nobody ever competed. I'd love to see what your flavour of WC is like.

    Would you be able to make it to the Oxford Throwdown ?
    Who did you do your wing chun under?

    I know what you mean. Some wing chun schools spar but it is 'silly sparring'. Wai Po's lot were setting themselves up for a big shock, because he was teaching them kickboxing and it was stuff that just wouldn't compete against a good kickboxer or Muay Thai guy.

    How I play my martial arts is if I'm caught in a certain range, I will play from that. ie If I'm stuck in a boxers range, I'll box. If I'm caught in a clinch, I'll grapple

    Too many guys will attempt to use their wing chun in all ranges which leads to problems. Wing chun is not really designed for long range fighting. It gives you core power and structire but if you use a powerful knee or roundhouse, a wing chun guy would struggle using just wing chun.

    What's a throwdown?
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 5:13am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I did my Wing Chun in Nino Bernardo's organisation for about 2.5 years.
    Throwdowns are meetings of Bullshido members to spar, wrestle, do groundwork, and test and swap different MA theories with people from other styles.

    There's going to be one in Oxford on January 8th (sign up on the Oxford Throwdown thread in the 'Throwdown' section of the forum) if you want to come.
    Last edited by Cullion; 12/14/2005 5:15am at .
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  10. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2005 5:32am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    I did my Wing Chun in Nino Bernardo's organisation for about 2.5 years.
    Throwdowns are meetings of Bullshido members to spar, wrestle, do groundwork, and test and swap different MA theories with people from other styles.

    There's going to be one in Oxford on January 8th (sign up on the Oxford Throwdown thread in the 'Throwdown' section of the forum) if you want to come.
    Ooo I might do that. I'll probably get hurt but I love all that kind of stuff.
    Oxford's a bit far as I don't drive but I'll see what I can do

    From what I have seen of Nino (magazines/website) he looks very good. I might see if I can pop down to his gym in London next year.

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