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  1. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2005 9:28pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sun Tzu:

    Following this philosophy, "Dar" is another word I have interest in. Tan Dar means a Punch

    More likely it means more simply "to strike", not necessarily a punch. Link it and I can confirm it.

    The shape of Bong Gerk is also used as a inquisitive leg (Man Gerk)...

    I think calling an "asking leg" is a simpler and better sounding translation. In Hung Gar the hand counterpart is called an "asking hand". But either way is accurate. That's just my personal taste in translations.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
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  2. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2005 9:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think Astrosmurf gave the link....:-)

    I have a list from WT people produced with different spellings and stuff, but the VT link is a good resource for the public consumption.

    "Chi" in Chunner terms refers to the "sticky" training or muscle memory/ reflex training. Sometimes people also refer to the effects of this training as it occurs in fighting too, but that is not technically correct. There is no Chi Sau in Fighting. There is only the Tao.....

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  3. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 3:18am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are taking the terms too literally!!! Gerk IS the motion that the leg makes.

    It's the difference between saying 'fast car' and 'fast moving car' if that makes any sense.

    If you are doing a rear stamp kick, at what point does it become yang gerk? It could be when you lift your knee or when you have finished the motion. Yang gerk has to describe the entire motion....
  4. Astrosmurf is offline
    Astrosmurf's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 8:35am

    supporting member
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    You are taking the terms too literally!!! Gerk IS the motion that the leg makes.

    It's the difference between saying 'fast car' and 'fast moving car' if that makes any sense.

    If you are doing a rear stamp kick, at what point does it become yang gerk? It could be when you lift your knee or when you have finished the motion. Yang gerk has to describe the entire motion....

    Dont mix up the character "gerk" and words (2 or more charcacters) in wich it appears. Gerk itself needs as Omar pointed out context though the basic meaning is leg. Yanggerk is a word with two characters that means exactly the type of kick you are talking about.
  5. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Least Cool Guy in all of Japan
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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 8:46am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To qualify this, I think before anybody posts about wing chun words they need to say whether they

    a)CAN ACTUALLY SPEAK CHINESE

    or

    b) brown nose sifu's bumhole and learn all the chinese words for breakfast cereals and have fake buddhist altars in their house.
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
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  6. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 9:32am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Astrosmurf
    Dont mix up the character "gerk" and words (2 or more charcacters) in wich it appears. Gerk itself needs as Omar pointed out context though the basic meaning is leg. Yanggerk is a word with two characters that means exactly the type of kick you are talking about.
    What I mean is, the Chinese literature (Cantonese) is not like English. It is like chi sao could be literally translated into 'air hand' etc. Do you see where I'm going?

    Kick is not the same as leg which is what I am trying to point out. 'Kick' is an action. 'Leg' is not.

    I was taught cantonese by a mate, but I don't trust him!! Therefore, I am not saying that 'my view is better than yours', I am just genuinely interested in it. Our Sifu (who is Cantonese) says it is 'kick' and leaves it at that!! Help!
  7. Astrosmurf is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 9:45am

    supporting member
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    What I mean is, the Chinese literature (Cantonese) is not like English. It is like chi sao could be literally translated into 'air hand' etc. Do you see where I'm going?

    Kick is not the same as leg which is what I am trying to point out. 'Kick' is an action. 'Leg' is not.

    I was taught cantonese by a mate, but I don't trust him!! Therefore, I am not saying that 'my view is better than yours', I am just genuinely interested in it. Our Sifu (who is Cantonese) says it is 'kick' and leaves it at that!! Help!

    Most of the WC terms with gerk in them are names for kicks so maybe he left it at that as he is not trying to teach you the chinese language.

    BTW, the chi in chisao is not the air chi (ch'i or qi in mandarin).

    And yes I speak some Mandarin (university studies in Sweden and China + mandarin speaking wife).
  8. Kamon Guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 9:55am


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Astrosmurf
    Most of the WC terms with gerk in them are names for kicks so maybe he left it at that as he is not trying to teach you the chinese language.

    BTW, the chi in chisao is not the air chi (ch'i or qi in mandarin).

    And yes I speak some Mandarin (university studies in Sweden and China + mandarin speaking wife).
    Without being rude - I thought wing chun was Cantonese? This may be where I am getting confused
  9. Astrosmurf is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 10:03am

    supporting member
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamon Guy
    Without being rude - I thought wing chun was Cantonese? This may be where I am getting confused
    The structure is the same.
  10. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2005 10:18am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This idea of Gerk being a kick has caused some problems for young students. Bong jerk and Yap Gerk are the 2 basic kick counter shapes in Wing Tzun. Bong going at 45 degrees with knee pointing to opposite side that leg is on and Yap going 45 degree with knee pointing out on same side that leg is on.

    Seeing Gerk as "kick", students often do the shape as a block, then kick. This is not WT. Since the kicking part is always a Thrust kick (Chung Bo?), or maybe a side kick, The words Bong or Yap describe the shape of it. So you do a thrust kick and if it meets a leg on the way in, the pressure makes the shape. A Tzunner should not just put the shape up as a block. That would be MT :happy7:

    ofcoarse, I mentioned the Man Gerk, which is shaped like Bong Gerk, and it is put up into the space in front, on the centerline......

    As I said, I use the Chinese as a "dead Language" just like I use Latin. Since I do not speak it, it is dead to me :glasses3: It is easier to say a single understood word then to go around using long descriptions. "You give me a Character 4 thrusting Punch Fist and I will try my Palm Up hand with a simultaneous Character 4 thrusting Punch Fist in combination with a Inner rotation adduction stance, a Thrust kick turning into a Bong Leg, all with 45 degree turn." Easier to say Punch me so I can work on Tan Dar, with kick.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kamon Guy:
    Without being rude - I thought wing chun was Cantonese? This may be where I am getting confused


    The structure is the same.


    The characters are also the same, which is the important thing to remember with Chinese. There are a lot of spoken dialects and languages in China, but they all write with the same characters.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

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