My current opinions on wing chun

[Omar]

Chain punching = bullshit

Punching with a chain, now that is the **** !

Drunken Master II (aka "Legend of Drunken Master" aka "Zui Quan 2")

Finally fight in the steel factory. The big American...yeah baby....

[j416to]

Please, stop. None of those equations make any sense. Not only that, but applying pure physics to a real world situation doesn't work.

PL

So then where does one actually apply pure physics? If not to real world situations.

Are all these people winning Noble Prizes in Physics for solving artificial Cyber-World Game-boy problems?

[taikwido]

There are 3 ways to generate destructive force in a strike:
1), the typical boxer/karate way, with speed and mass, creating momentum etc.
the whole f=ma thing
2), the short range "kinetic energy" method for systems like Taiji, and to an extent some WC schools, the whole ke=1/2mxa2 thing ( impulse and all that)
3) the combination of the above.

Distance is applicable to the first method, and many Strikers get stuck in this mode forever.
The WC method, in theory, advocates method 2, but in reality, is just crappy arm punching.

I don't know why you sight short range as being for kinetic energy. Kinetic energy need space to get up to speed. Short range is more like F=ma. Think like a big slow weight lifter.

Long range is e=mv^2. Kinetic energy ... SPEED!!!!

All effective striking techniques rely on recruiting as many muscle groups as you can to "help out". I don't think it has **** to do with distance. Although, one can rely on accelerating a limb over a larger distance and become complacent. Training over "short distances" will require many more muscle groups to get up to speed.

The ultimate lesson should be that punching without your hips is stupid.

[Dochter]

Also, wing chun is one of the quickest roads to self defense if that is what you are looking for. Since it was created by a nun for a woman, it is also very effective against larger opponents.

I think the first comment is demonstratably false and the second so absurd to be irrelevant.

Neither of these comments have been demonstrated to anyone's* satisfaction.









*by anyone I mean me

[Lights Out]

Years ago I bought a book called Jeet Kune Do by Paul Vunak. I think that guy is respected by JKD-doers around here, and around the world. In that book every technique shown had at least one WC element (like the chain punching) well, I didn´t know **** at that tiem about MA or fighting (I don´t know **** neither now), but I bought what he was selling and still I consider that WC can be a good mix with another striking art.

On this subject I´d like to hear more from WCL now that he trains in another style. What do you save from your years in WC, MA-related?

[Preacher Man]

The WC method, in theory, advocates method 2, but in reality, is just crappy arm punching.

The ultimate lesson should be that punching without your hips is stupid.

You punch with your hips in Wing Chun, thats where your power comes from over such a short range. Its how you do the 'one inch punch' party trick.

And it sounds like there are more **** schools out there than i at first believed. No sparring!!?!?!? Bad bad schools. We spar, we get hit, we gouge each other, we go for the groin, we yank clumps of hair out, we draw blood/sweat/tears/drool/piss and have a damn good time doing it, we train on a hard floor so leg sweeps etc are often agony.

To cut to the point, if you're going to learn Wing Chun don't learn it with rules or limitations, practise it the way its meant to be used and always keep an open mind about what you might face. Mostly, hit each other a lot.



*rant over*

[Anna Kovacs]

I know **** about MT or BJJ, but from this board I get the impression that they are simpler, more straightforward styles to learn. Does this mean that you can learn the entire style in a year or two? What then?

Thai boxing is pretty simple. I wouldnt count on learning all there is to know about BJJ in a year or two though.

[Wounded Ronin]

It's like Mastermind! A moment to learn, a lifetime to master! :icon_geek

[Nightz]

1) It forces you to develop alternative sources of power generation when you punch, as you are not allowed to use your goddamn shoulders. Yes, my former sifu could generate a huge amount of power, but this usually depended on a stepping movement, which could not be done in all circunstances, or it depended on a very short motion, which cannot work if your arm is not already pretty close to your enemy. Since you do not learn how to use your shoulders when punching, you cannot take advantage of them when you should. Meaning, you don´t learn how to develop power from a distance. Big mistake.

That is not to say in a real fight you should not use elbow power.
The idea is train you elbow/forearm power. The power is in the elbow not really the step.The problem with punching with your shoulder is that you telegraph it easily. The shoulder is also easily broken, you should learn to fight without it.

2) No emphasis on circular strikes, punches or kicks. This flaw is irredeemable. A hook is an excellent fight ender, so is a roundkick. Those techniques should be emphasized in a striking art.

A hook puch leaves you open in fact all circular attacks. Wing chun is about split second timing. Wing Chun has a strict adherence to its principles. If you had a good sifu he would practically show the pros and cons.

3) It takes forever to learn how it should actually work. Lots of different kinds of footwork, too much theory, it all became confusing. I DID WING CHUN FOR TWO DAMN YEARS AND I STILL DON´T KNOW HOW IT SHOULD ALL FIT TOGETHER IN A FIGHT. And please, let´s not even start with the lineage wars, and with the "that is not wing chun, THIS is wing chun". I refuse to believe that strange guard I was taught and those artificial stepping motions are the way it is supposed to work.

I agree

4) No sparring. At all. This is both inexcusable and frustrating. This was also the reason I left the kwoon. I was creamed by a MT guy with six months of experience when I started it, because I had no experience in sparring. And I believe I would also get creamed if I had tried to use eye gouges or vicious elbow strikes to the spinal cord, if anyone must know.

Thats one of the problems within the community. Thats why I only use Wing Chun as a base art. Many wing chun techniques are negated once you put padding and gloves on and maybe it could cause students to question things.
with Gloves on you end up boxing, bare hand Wing Chun shines.

[j416to]

I don't know why you sight short range as being for kinetic energy. Kinetic energy need space to get up to speed. Short range is more like F=ma. Think like a big slow weight lifter.

Long range is e=mv^2. Kinetic energy ... SPEED!!!!

All effective striking techniques rely on recruiting as many muscle groups as you can to "help out". I don't think it has **** to do with distance. Although, one can rely on accelerating a limb over a larger distance and become complacent. Training over "short distances" will require many more muscle groups to get up to speed.

The ultimate lesson should be that punching without your hips is stupid.

Actually Ronin69 is saying the same thing that you are, and he's probably more correct with respect to the distance considerations.

*geek mode on*

Given:

1) Kinetic energy: ke = 0.5mv^2

2) Force: F = ma

3) Projectile motion: v = at
and also v^2 = 2ad

Kinetic Energy becomes: ke = 0.5mv^2 = 0.5m(at)^2 = mad


At close range both the distance d and the time duration t will be very small. Thus, to maximize the energy in your punch, you need to generating as high an acceleration as possible. Which in turn, also maximizes the force of your punch.

The difference with longer distances is probably related more to the "effective" mass that you can generate. At longer distances it's easier to rotate your hips and shoulders to increase the "effective" mass of your punch, which in turn increases the energy and force of your punch. At shorter distances your technique has to be a little more refined, to be able to quickly and comfortable rotate your hips and accelerate your "effective" mass into your punch.


*geek mode off*