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  1. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    São Paulo, Brazil
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 9:21am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Broke an arm with tan sau?! Impressive. But I still believe Wc lacks a lot of useful stuff - specially jabs, hooks, and dodges.

    Yeah, yeah, maybe a couple of schools do teach that. Most don´t, though.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  2. supercrap is offline
    supercrap's Avatar

    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Least Cool Guy in all of Japan
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    2,296

    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 9:21am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Omar, usually I agree with you, but that's just your opinion.

    The guys you mention, I put money on them studying flower arranging and STILL kicking ass.

    Having spent many years in wing chun, and still sucking hard, but still being thrown around by my sifu, I can tell you it DOES take years to get good at. Too fucking long. That's why it's not a practical choice if you want to know how to fight if you ask me.

    By the time you get any good at it, you'll be a goddam peace-loving hippy with atrophied muscles anyway!!
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
    Scramble Stuff
  3. eyebeams is offline

    Senior Member

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    Feb 2005
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 9:44am


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Poop-Loops
    I'd like some video proof of a guy being thrown off balance and backwards because of chain punches, please.

    PL
    You got it in the Wing Chun vs. Karate vid on this site, but the karate guy sucks, so it doesn't count or something.
  4. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Oct 2002
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    Xi'an, P.R.C.
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 9:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    supercrap,

    Your right about the guy with the scars. He trained 3 years at a school and then another 2 years in jail where he worked out some of his own training methods that he could practice in his cell.

    Guy who broke the arm was also exptremely well built. He had a solid base in Taijiquan before and had been training endless hours of Choi Li Fut for a year or so before he learned the WC. The arm break was largely because in the space of only about a year or so he had become one of the top students and one of the other guys didn't like it so he asked to spar and came at his with a hook really hard. My buddy blocked it with a tan sau and . . .c-r-a-c-k.

    However, when you say something like:

    The guys you mention, I put money on them studying flower arranging and STILL kicking ass.
    While true, it is self selecting. It works both ways. Mark Kerr could kick ass without his wrestling skills. Styles attract certain types. It's not my fault that WC has been marcketed to Bruce Lee wannabees and that they came up with this whole damn "created for a girl" thing and talk about dim mak and bullshit like that. Most any of the WC pussies I have seen at the place I trained breifly in LA would have been pussies if they trained at a respectable MMA gym as well. It works both ways.

    I'll tell you about the one and only place I have personally encountered, not read about but trained with the students of, which consitantly produced fighters. I picked stories about a couple of the best but pretty much anyone who trained there for more than a year or so was a force to be reckoned with.

    They did Siu Lum Tau the way Hung Gar people do Tid Sien. They did it with incredible dynamic tension but only in the appropriate places. They did it so that a single run through left you shaking and sweating. They did qi sau softer than anyone but Siu Lum Tau was training. They had a unique set of combos to drill and . . . well....what can I say. They were good. The teacher hit them and they were not afraid to use force.

    The fundamental structure of WC is very sound and very effective. People stretch out the curriculum and over complicate it to get more tuition.

    WC Lawyer,

    Jabs are overrated. I don't jab unless I am just playing around. Hooks are great but they are not the only way to come in from the side. A conventional hook doesn't work well with the WC structure. There's no true hooks in Baji either but I don't miss them. Dodging . . . well, WC is all about playing the angles. You should be slipping things all the time but if your constantly applying forward pressure nothing is going to look like a dodge. WC tends to go up the middle gate or enter the side gate almost from the front.

    Argh...one of these days when I am in the states again for a throwdown, whoever is there has to remind me to spar someone using basically WC stuff only and I will show them. It's not my favorite but I can do it.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  5. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 9:47am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aren't any of the WC haters out there in San Francisco?
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  6. Eric Tong is offline

    Registered Member

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    Nov 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 9:57am


     Style: Wing Chun , Yang Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Omar is right here once again. At my gym, we hit each other, hard. My sifu hit me in the upper ribs and i felt like someone had kicked me in the nuts. It's a reletivly small school, and about 5 of us are really dedicated. Some of the guys who come in think they are going to learn some David Carridene ****, and there's nothing I love more than beating the crap out of them. If they come back after that, their perspective has shifted. After every class, my shirt is compleatly drenched with sweat and I go home with some part of me bleeding.
  7. Omar is offline

    Baji demigod.

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 10:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Chinese Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well you must be used to the haters since you also train a sissy internal art. . . . but again, from one of the few people teaching that style in the whole damn country who really knows how to fight.

    Did you do that on purpose? Did you say to your self, "I'm going to go and find excellent teachers for fighting but only if I can find them teaching me the two Chinese arts with the worst reputation of all...." Because that's what it looks like you did.
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UGaYD_wcaIg

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Uepo9ahg-M

    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


  8. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 10:13am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, you are missing what supercrap is saying. It wasn't the style it was the fighter.

    Funny thing is Omar admits this even though you are avoiding his point. Neither was a full on WC person. It was added onto or battle tested.

    That is why WC gets such a hard knock. If you read ANY thread on WC a minority really spar. Most espouse the validity of Chi Sau and the need not to spar.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 11/28/2005 10:16am at .
  9. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 10:15am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My bad Omar I used your name in the wrong place correction coming.
  10. Astrosmurf is offline
    Astrosmurf's Avatar

    Lightweight

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    Sweden
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2005 10:17am

    supporting member
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    No, you are missing what supercrap is saying. It wasn't the style it was the fighter.

    Funny thing is Omar admits this even though he avoids his own point. Neither was a full on WC person. It was added onto or battle tested.

    That is why WC gets such a hard knock. If you read ANY thread on WC a minority really spar. Most espouse the validity of Chi Sau and the need not to spar.
    Often when you read about somebody who is said to be really good at WC they have also alot of training in another style (or styles).

    Could it be that most WC has come to focus too much on the theory and forgets to make fighters out of people. They give them the shape of the tools and the concepts but not the conditioning and mental part of being an actual fighter.

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