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  1. dramaboy is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:07pm


     Style: -

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WCL: It's been what 7-8 years since I last practiced WT, so my opinion is obsolete, but I agree with your observation. WT/WC is suffering from the "sifu said" as opposed to "let's roll" mentality.

    All the centerline theory and shortest distance stuff is correct. But these principles are also the most obvious ones and easiest to anticipate.

    You adhere blindly to all the WC principles and you end up doing deerboxing (thanks Mr McFu).

    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    Why do you think WC is so popular ?
    It is very popular in terms of presence of websites and activity of trolls, but is it really?
    I'd like to see some estimate of the # of practicioners.
    I would guess it is nowhere near TKD, judo, major ryus of karate etc.



    Tomas
    Current stage of death: denial
  2. Jekyll is offline
    Jekyll's Avatar

    .

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Low resistant arts are always going to be more popular compared to the more brutal/active/enjoyable ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  3. Nightz is offline

    Lightweight

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Twing Tchun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    Low resistant arts are always going to be more popular compared to the more brutal/active/enjoyable ones.
    You obviously havent seen the movie.
  4. Beneath Contempt is offline

    Cowardly Henchman

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:19pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by virtual_mantis
    For example lets say you're in a closet and someone starts to mess with you. Wing Chun is the perfect system for this situation.
    I disagree, if you are a homosexual who has not yet been outed WC is not the art for you. BJJ is the way forward as a large part of no-gi training is about fighting naked men with shaved heads.
  5. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Oct 2002
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wcrevdonner
    *sigh*

    Wing Chun does have elbows and knees. Not as much as Muay thai but definitely has them. With the way that chi sao goes you'd be a fool not to have them.
    *sigh*

    Did you read what he wrote? It may "have" them. Doesn't mean they're commonly, or effectively, trained.
  6. Jekyll is offline
    Jekyll's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: San shou(tai chi) +judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightz
    You obviously havent seen the movie.
    Movie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickx
    It must suck for legit practitioners of tai chi like Cullion to see their art get all watered down into exercise for seniors.
    Those who esteme qi have no strength. ~ Exposition of Insights into the Thirteen Postures Attrib: Wu Yuxiang founder of Wu style tai chi.
  7. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dochter
    *sigh*

    Did you read what he wrote? It may "have" them. Doesn't mean they're commonly, or effectively, trained.
    What he said.

    And wcrevdonner (damn what a long name), glad to know you came here to participate in our little discussion. I will now try to address your other points.

    "And as for the trapping thing...thats useless unless you a) have a decent laap sao (grabbing hand, ie pulling an arm out of the way and hopefully pull them to the side at the same time) or b) have really good chi sao skills, that will overcome the brute you're trying to trap. Otherwise you're into clinch territory which is a different ball game. Don't mistake it, chi sao and clinching are at different ranges, defined by the fact you can still strike with punches/palms/etc at chi sao range, (and are meant to) as opposed to finding the odd one or two at clinching range."

    I disagree, mostly. I used trapping skills with boxing gloves, and its impossible to grab anything with those on. Granted, that means I only managed to hold the other person in check without doing much (those gloves make it impossible to get past the other guys guard), but that was only because I couldnt use my elbows.

    Without gloves I bet I could trap quite well, even without grabbing. Most of our chi sao was done without grabs when I did WC, so we feinted until we created an opening for a punch.

    As for chi sao and the clinch being at different ranges, I would say that in theory you are right, but in practice footwork can get you from one range into another quite easily (as I found out the hard way when I started muay thai). Meaning, the short range punches so dear to wing chun will not save the day, if your only plan consists of keeping at trapping range - the other guy wont find it too hard to move away and kick/punch you into oblivion, or to move closer and use his elbows and knees.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  8. Aikidoka82 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:33pm


     Style: Tomiki Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In response to point 3): From what little I've seen of WC it does seem like something that you have to practice for a very long time for it to be effective. In that respect it is similiar to my style, aikido, in that aikido practicioners often say that it takes a decade of training to make it effective because of the heavy reliance on theory, timing and "harmonizing" with your opponent. I just wanted to point out that some people actually like it that way. I find it intellectually stimulating and I think a lot of people feel the same way. For proof, note the disproportionally large amount of literature on aikido. If I wanted to do maximum ass-kicking in the shortest amount of time, I would do MT and/ or BJJ too
    Last edited by Aikidoka82; 1/07/2005 12:40pm at .
  9. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aikidoka82
    In response to point 3): From what little I've seen of WC it does seem like something that you have to practice for a very long time for it to be effective. In that respect it is similiar to my style, aikido, in that aikido practicioners often say that it takes a decade of training to make it effective because of the heavy reliance on theory, timing and "harmonizing" your opponent. I just wanted to point out that some people actually like it that way. I find it intellectually stimulating and I think a lot of people feel the same way. For proof, not the disproportionally large amount of literature on aikido. If I wanted to do maximum ass-kicking in the shortest amount of time, I would do MT and/ or BJJ too
    Well said, those are my views too...of course, no matter the system, no matter how long you train, I believe you will never learn how to fight unless you spar hard and often. I dont know much about aikido, but I believe WC can, indeed, make you a killig machine.

    My opinion is that WC will take you much, much longer to turn you into a killing machine than muay thai or kyokushin.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  10. Nightz is offline

    Lightweight

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    UK
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    107

    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:41pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Twing Tchun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll
    Movie?
    yeah wing chun starring michelle yeoh
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