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  1. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    under the sink
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 11:11am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ronin69
    Why do you think WC is so popular ?
    I blame Bruce Lee.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  2. Yum Yum is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 11:15am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    wingchun

    Is an ok style if you're not too interested in getting hit. The flipside is that if you don't learn to take a hit now and then, how will you perform if you do?

    I think wc has some pretty good techniques; the hammer fists, spear fingers and palm techniques are power shots that could mess someone up in close. But if you can't land these while sparring, how will you land them on someone who doesn't conform to your position, stance and timing?

    Some stylists will train and fight against anyone to get a real feel for what works and what doesn't. Its not uncommon for TKD guys to get into a MT gym and see how their kicks work and how they don't...or stand up guys to get into a weapons class to learn to fight with extensions in their hands.

    Pardon my ramblings...
  3. virtual_mantis is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 11:17am

    supporting member
     Style: 7 Star

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WingChun Lawyer
    The trapping skills are indeed a must if you are in clinch range and if you don´t want to/can´t grapple, I do use them sometimes when I spar. Such skills are worth having, yes.

    But if you want to learn close quarters striking, you should also put lots of emphasis on elbows and knees, something wing chun schools do not usually do.

    That´s actually a big problem, even though I cannot say if it is common in other wing chun schools (I suspect it is, considering the videos I saw here): my sifu used to say "oh, if that happens strike with the elbow and/or with the knee". Great idea, but then we should get the pads and actually PRACTICE those knee and elbow strikes a lot, like MT guys do, and we should not hope we will know how to use those weapons with power and precision when the need arises.
    I agree with you I was just joking about getting into a fight in a closet.
  4. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 11:19am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like the trapping.
  5. lama_xy is offline
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    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 11:21am


     Style: non-aliveness BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you rely on distance to generate power....what happen if your opponent take this away from you? This is the premise of Wing Chun (and lot of other Chinese styles). This is why "chi sao" is Wing Chun's "bread and butter".

    Why is it so popular? You can thank Bruce Lee for that as alot of ppl use "the art that Bruce Lee studied" as a big selling point. Additionally, the whole thing about "shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line" and "designed by a woman so its techniques are not as dependent on strength" also help sells it like hot cake.
  6. WingChun Lawyer is offline
    WingChun Lawyer's Avatar

    Modesty forbids more.

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 11:39am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ newbie.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lama_xy
    1) If you rely on distance to generate power....what happen if your opponent take this away from you? This is the premise of Wing Chun (and lot of other Chinese styles). This is why "chi sao" is Wing Chun's "bread and butter".

    2) Why is it so popular? You can thank Bruce Lee for that as alot of ppl use "the art that Bruce Lee studied" as a big selling point. Additionally, the whole thing about "shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line" and "designed by a woman so its techniques are not as dependent on strength" also help sells it like hot cake.
    1) True, I do not disagree. But punches and kicks are the parts of striking generally reserved for long distance attacks, you can mostly count on the distance needed to generate power when you use them. Up close you can use elbows, knees, and grappling, of course.

    This doesn´t mean short distance strikes aren´t useful, far from me to say that. But I believe those strikes are vastly overrated in wing chun. I think it would be more efficient to train the proper use of elbows and knees than to spend too much time on short distance punches - and now we come to another of the points I made previously: if we compare WC to other striking arts, can we honestly say that spending lots of time on those strikes and less time on elbows and knees is such a good idea?

    Quite frankly, I am trying to fight the notion that the system is not important as compared to the individual. I believe not all systems are equal, some are easier to master and to apply than others. Wing chun is not the best striking system in the world, if we consider its training methods and its main techniques.

    2) Yup.
    That civilisation may not sink,
    Its great battle lost,
    Quiet the dog, tether the pony
    To a distant post;
    Our master Caesar is in the tent
    Where the maps are spread,
    His eyes fixed upon nothing,
    A hand under his head.


    - W.B. Yeats
  7. afronaut is offline
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    Middleweight

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    northeast US
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 11:42am

    supporting member
     Style: boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by virtual_mantis
    I think Wing Chun is a good fighting system for close quater fighting. For example lets say you're in a closet and someone starts to mess with you. Wing Chun is the perfect system for this situation.
    Wing Chun is perfect for people in the closet.

    Damn, WC really is t3h gh3y.
    I dork harder than any of you can imagine.

    - Hedgehoney
  8. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Canada
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 11:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lama_xy
    If you rely on distance to generate power....what happen if your opponent take this away from you? This is the premise of Wing Chun (and lot of other Chinese styles). This is why "chi sao" is Wing Chun's "bread and butter".

    .
    There are 3 ways to generate destructive force in a strike:
    1), the typical boxer/karate way, with speed and mass, creating momentum etc.
    the whole f=ma thing
    2), the short range "kinetic energy" method for systems like Taiji, and to an extent some WC schools, the whole ke=1/2mxa2 thing ( impulse and all that)
    3) the combination of the above.

    Distance is applicable to the first method, and many Strikers get stuck in this mode forever.
    The WC method, in theory, advocates method 2, but in reality, is just crappy arm punching.
  9. Nightz is offline

    Lightweight

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    UK
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:03pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Twing Tchun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wing chun has its good points.
    I use it as my base art.
  10. wcrevdonner is offline

    Registered Member

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    England
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:05pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    *sigh*

    Wing Chun does have elbows and knees. Not as much as Muay thai but definitely has them. With the way that chi sao goes you'd be a fool not to have them.

    And as for the trapping thing...thats useless unless you a) have a decent laap sao (grabbing hand, ie pulling an arm out of the way and hopefully pull them to the side at the same time) or b) have really good chi sao skills, that will overcome the brute you're trying to trap. Otherwise you're into clinch territory which is a different ball game. Don't mistake it, chi sao and clinching are at different ranges, defined by the fact you can still strike with punches/palms/etc at chi sao range, (and are meant to) as opposed to finding the odd one or two at clinching range.
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