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  1. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2005 11:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Good/Sloppy Grappling or How I Learned to Love the Bomb

    Here is the situation. I would consider myself a somewhat experienced grappler. Iíve noticed as of late (actually the last couple years) that when I roll I tend not to use pure techniques but rather a combination of many techniques rolled into one and even things that would not be considered techniques. Let me explainÖ

    Example: Passing the guard Ė Iíll start off using a technique and switch it mid stride depending on how my opponent reacts. (This is fairly typicalÖ). However sometimes I end up doing some crazy **** that is off the charts like passing over the knee one minute and then totally somersaulting over my opponent ending up momentarily with a quasi-knee on belly and then quickly transitioning to an armbar as my opponent sits up from my lack of having obtained a solid base quick enough. Now what the **** was that? Itís like four or five things that took place in less than 5 seconds and I went from being in the guard to subbing my opponent with some crazy **** I could never repeat.

    I also realized that I remove steps from techniques that I was taught. This is not a conscious decision. I.e. Attacks from the guard that require a foot on the hip to rotate your position. I delete this part and can just get into position without it.

    So here are the questions:

    1. Do you believe that you can progress in your grappling game to the point where you are no longer doing pure techniques all the time but rather just flowing constantly? Please explain.

    2. Do you think that this is just sloppy grappling and that one should only use pure technique? Please explain.

    3. Does your answer for the above questions change depending on the experience of the person? I.e. A noob doing this is sloppy but the experienced grappler is just innovating and flowing. (Note: I say flowing because I donít know how else to describe it. There is no conscious thought just reactions and sometimes crazy **** happens.) Edit: Please tell me your experience level so I can gauge newer grapplers answers from more experienced grapplers. There tends to be a difference in thought!

    Why I askÖ I watch some very experienced grapplers and they are just flowing from one technique to the next using every step etc. Very technical, very fluid and I always know what they are doing more or less.

    This is not me. (Well, sometimes but not always) Iíll flow through techniques too like the above one minute but the next I end up in some weird ass positions doing some weird ass things that still work.

    Is I be is Crazy? :5dunce:
    Last edited by Red Elvis; 1/06/2005 11:31pm at .
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  2. gojuJKDdude is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:29am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    while I dont consider myself a grappler I will attempt to field this question.-NO YOU WON'T.
    Last edited by Shuma-Gorath; 4/09/2006 12:32pm at .
  3. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:34am

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gojuJKDdude
    Its like when in Pride Nogueira created a new choke and didnt even realize it.
    When did this happen?

    I'm curious if this is how Eddie Bravo developed his unique moves? I never know what the hell it is that I just did though. I would have to video tape myself to see some of the crazy things I manage to pull off and even then I'm not sure I could replicate them or they would work for others.

    :wrestler4 :5huh:
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  4. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Least Cool Guy in all of Japan
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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:44am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    note: I am relatively new to BJJ.

    I would say it is a good sign.

    Simple - To break the rules, you must first learn the rules. And a million other sayings like that, another notable one 'master the system, don't be its slave'.

    Once you get good, and learn the rules, then you can confidently break them. It's really that simple. Now, if I started half guard passing somersaulting and backflip into a reverse omoplata mata leone backrub spinning toe hold, it most likely wouldn't work.

    But if you've been around the block a few times, then I think you should be doing things like this, as long as they work. It will give you something unique that will allow you to beat those unfamiliar with it. It was the same for me in Wing Chun and the same for my teacher - she would stand in a sloppy stance and not form complete movements but still be able to chuck everyone around the room.
    Last edited by supercrap; 1/07/2005 12:47am at .
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
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  5. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 12:48am

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by supercrap
    half guard passing somersaulting and backflip into a reverse omoplata mata leone backrub spinning toe hold,
    I think I've done a variation of this one! :icon_chee
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  6. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 1:54am


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also not a grappler, so please excuse me if I get anything horribly wrong,-NO
    Last edited by Shuma-Gorath; 4/09/2006 12:33pm at .
  7. Deadpan Scientist is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 2:43am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd like to thank all the non-grapplers for deciding to contribute to this grappling discussion.

    How long have you been grappling RedElvis?
  8. deus ex machina is offline
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    ***ned

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 3:31am

    supporting member
     Style: i

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who died and made you the expert?
  9. lifetime is offline

    Perpetually Punchdrunk

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 3:33am


     Style: TKD, MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Osiris could make that kind of generic statement about any kind of martial arts technique and still be right. I don't see anything wrong with what he said.
  10. deus ex machina is offline
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    ***ned

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    Posted On:
    1/07/2005 3:36am

    supporting member
     Style: i

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There's no substance to what he said. I can make up bullshit that sounds cool too. Watch.


    You must liken yourself to the mighty oak so that you may be firm in your stance and mind. But you should also be like the grass, so you may bend with adversity.
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