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  1. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2004 4:24pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony
    When I hear crank, I think of how I used to do it before being corrected.

    Think of applying the RNC this way.

    RNC that person like you would hug them. Hug them like you love them. RNC them close to you, breathe when you do it, RNC them like you missed them while they were gone.

    RNC them like you would hug your favorite relative.

    When I say RNC like hugging. Think of the way you hug, pulling your elbows together, pulling them in, and using your whole body. Don't put your head back, lean it closer to them.

    Hug them like you love them.

    If you do it right, the choke takes from 3 to 10 seconds on average.


    When I read that, especially the "Hug them like you love them" part, I thought of Isaac Hayes giving a Jiu Jitsu lesson.

    EDIT: Or Barry White, that would work too.
    sudo make me a sandwich!
  2. Gypsy Jazz is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2004 5:27pm


     Style: Does exercise count?

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    I was pulling my forearm in against his throat (maybe thats the problem?) and pushing his head forward onto it with my palm while arching my hips into him to streatch him better.
    From that it sounds like you're doing a different kind of rear naked choke. I'm no expert. but rear naked choke only means to choke some one from behind without the aid of a gi, right? At any rate the choke you described above sounds closer to this: http://web1.vattnet.com/judo/katamewaza/hadakajime.html than the demonstration of the RNC on bjj.org. From my experience, both yield taps quite quickly, but I've never choked someone out with either. I am taking a shot at guessing that the forearm choke across the front is a wind choke and that the bicep + forearm choke on the sides is a blood choke. Maybe someone more experienced can provide some insight as to the advantage of one over another.
  3. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2004 6:04pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Naked" chokes are just those without the gi being used, so more than one "RNC" exists.

    Best Judo demonstates hadaka jime as clearly forcing the forearm into the windpipe. Being a wind choke, it takes a lot longer to put someone under with it.

    Hadaka-jime differs from other forms since part of the pressure is also applied to the larynx and trachea which is extremely painful and the player will usually submit before unconsciousness intervenes.
    Source: How Safe is Choking in Judo?

    This is like Fedor's choke against Fujita:



    The "rear naked choke" most of us are refering to is probably the "mata leao" (BJJ name), which is a blood choke which puts pressure on the carotid arteries on the sides of the neck, not on the windpipe in the center. This type of choke is relatively painless and cause unconsciousness much faster than stopping their breathing.

    Judoinfo.com has interesting articles on shimewaza (choking and strangling techniques) that I recommend checking out:

    Judo Choking Techniques

    I'm still trying to find where they explain the difference between wind and blood chokes, and how wind chokes take longer.

    Also, from reading this forum, I have heard many people warn that chokes that attack the windpipe are potentially the most dangerous, as they can crush it and prevent breathing even when they choke is released, so you'll want to be careful with those.
    Last edited by Aesopian; 12/31/2004 6:08pm at .
  4. Strong Machine is offline

    Professional Fighter/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2004 10:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Pro-Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1 Dont push the back of the head forward, push the back of the NECK forward.
    2 take a deep breath expanding your chest.
    3 dont put your palm on the back of his neck, put the back of your hand there.l
    4 if you got hooks ARCH, throwing your feet back and chest in.

    And another fine option is to not use the method where your elbows go together, but to slide the elbow on the arm in front of his neck BACK, your other hand pulls his head across you, your forearm bone slices into his trachea.
    This gets a quicker tap alot, it gets a kinda spasm tap from the sudden throat crush.In this method think about your shoulder blades coming together.
    Not saying the above stuff is the only way.Just stuff I like to think about.
  5. Pandinha is offline

    Administrator

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2004 10:41pm

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Machine
    1 Dont push the back of the head forward, push the back of the NECK forward.
    2 take a deep breath expanding your chest.
    3 dont put your palm on the back of his neck, put the back of your hand there.l
    4 if you got hooks ARCH, throwing your feet back and chest in.

    And another fine option is to not use the method where your elbows go together, but to slide the elbow on the arm in front of his neck BACK, your other hand pulls his head across you, your forearm bone slices into his trachea.
    This gets a quicker tap alot, it gets a kinda spasm tap from the sudden throat crush.In this method think about your shoulder blades coming together.
    Not saying the above stuff is the only way.Just stuff I like to think about.

    Good stuff. Gonna try that!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  6. KickAHippie is offline
    KickAHippie's Avatar

    Corrections Officer

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    Posted On:
    12/31/2004 10:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: American Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From what it sounds like to me you were just throwing your forearm across the windpipe and yanking back. If there is one thing I have noticed the minute you cut off someone's wind they kind of freak out and get an energy burst. That would probably be a good reason why your friend was slamming you around. I don't know if this happens all the time it is just from my experience. I think the best advice IMO is Anthony's "hug them like you love them" technique.
  7. gr81disp is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2005 4:51pm


     Style: BJJ (on hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OK, Try this little experiment. Do your choke like you were doing on your friend and look at how much space there is where his neck is supposed to be. Now, rotate your palm to where it is facing down and curl your hand into a fist. It actually does make the choke tighter, as long as the bottom of your fist is pressed into your opponent. Also, if you cannot get it on the neck, simply try for where the skull meets the spine, that usually works fine. Take a deep breath and DRIVE your cheek into the back of your opponents head to help force his neck forward, into your arm. Lastly, when you arch your back, make sure you do not create space between your heads.
  8. Thaiboxerken is offline
    Thaiboxerken's Avatar

    Genius

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2005 5:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm still trying to find where they explain the difference between wind and blood chokes, and how wind chokes take longer.
    Uhm....... blood chokes directly cut off oxygen supply to the brain by pinching the arteries. Wind chokes cut off oxygen to the brain by stopping O2 to the lungs. The lungs can hold a bit of oxygen, that's why it can take up to 2 minutes to choke someone out with a wind choke.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.
  9. feedback is offline
    feedback's Avatar

    UAAAH!

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2005 5:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find that wiggling my arm back and forth while making slurping noises and saying "Soon you will feel the pleasure of my love tentacles!" helps a great deal.

    Also, try and grab your own shoulder with the hand of the choking arm.
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
  10. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2005 5:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaiboxerken
    Not his chin, his adam's apple. If the chin is in there, then you're just squeezing the crap out of his jaw.
    Quote Originally Posted by http://bjj.org/techniques/jen/tech8a/
    NOTE: When executed properly, this method of applying the choke can be done over your opponent's jaw even when he he dips his chin down to protect his neck. He will submit as the choke will crush his jaw.
    five characters
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