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  1. me is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/03/2002 6:00pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    MC Dojo fraud being exposed at
    http://www.fastdefense.com/wwwboard/index.htm

    An open letter

    Mr. Patire
    While I feel it is great that you are addressing Jasonís post I detect a great deal of hostility in your answer.
    I have a couple questions about Homdo myself and after reading one of your articles encouraging people to check the background and lineage of instructors I am sure you will be more than happy to answer them. As you stated a in the article number of Martial arts instructors have lied about there background in the past and have turned out to be total frauds.
    Jasonís questions and my own for that matter are not about CDT or any certification or info not related to Homdo or your martial arts career.
    1. I would like to know how we could contact R.S. Stantin and Sam Kayes about the history of Homdo and their lineage for verification that the art exists. I would also like to get a timeline of when they were in the Philippines as I know people in both Cebu and Korea and there is no history in either country of the art.
    2. I have read much material written by yourself and would like to try to get a timeline of your early martial arts career. Who did you train Aikido under, what was his rank and his lineage and your final rank. When did you train Homdo in the Philippines itself and when and where in the US (what years) as in the histories I have read previously your martial arts timeline and your educational resume have a number of discrepancies i.e. in high school at the same time as training in overseas.
    3. Are there any Homdo instructors trained by your teachers who were not your direct students and how might they be contacted

    Please do not change the subject to certificates that can be purchased, pyramid schemes to make money from school owners or anything other than the questions concerning Homdo. I am only following the instructions laid out by yourself for questioning instructors in Martial arts success across from your ad guaranteeing school owners willing to rip off their students big profits.
    By the way Mr. Patire slander is when someone knowingly lies about you not when they ask a question, expose the truth or state an honest opinion. Jason was only trying to get a history of HOMDO a Korean art from the Philippines that nobody in either country ever heard of.
  2. me is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2002 12:00am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    THE OFICIAL mickey-D Patire response

    WOW YOU SPOKE TO ENTIRE COUNTRIES, BOTH? PLEASE EDUCATE US ON HOW YOU DID THAT? THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS GUYS LIKE YOU!!


    I have done my research amd I have YET to find a legally registered person by the name of ME. So speaking of hiding, step up and be known. Then as a courtesy I will fly you and Mr. Jason, who I must say is more of a man, to my center and we can exchange arts.

    As I stated to Jason I did what I did to prevent a FAST Defense CDT problem and I am sure Mr. Kipp will shut this down on his end otherwise no one gets hurt except the systems.

    As far as buying things that is some statement. I am sure you are more familar with that them I due to the fact in my world I earn it.

    To tell you a quick story I had a person enroll in a CDT class whom I found to be a liar about his certifcations. He said he was CIA, Postal and Marshall material and yet he was a webmaster.

    Maybe you know him because he tries to entire into systems just for certifications and when you research his background you will see he has many civil suits against him for slander. Best part is he loses the cases, that is why he doesn't post his name anymore. His daddy helps him out, so I am sure he is under a tight leash now.

    Sound familar? I am sure Mr. Kipp does backgrounds on people in his system. Please state your name and I will do yours for him as a courtesy. Stand-up people have no problem with this, do you?

    If you don't, we know the real fake. I am in the public eye like Mr. Kipp so it is easy to take shots at people that step up.

    You can email me direct not to tie up Mr. Kipps website. But knowing Human nature, you will not.

    I allowed you a few minutes of my time. That is enough. Jason on the other hand was more of a real person because he likes to explore the unknown and learn about new systems. Next will you be taking shots at Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Mike Swain and Ernie Reyes for starting their own systems? To be very honest I wish I did start the Hom-Do system because to me it is very effective and has worked for me in the "Real" World.

    See ya!!

    Without prejiduce,

    Tom Patire
  3. me is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2002 12:01am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My response to virtual tough guy

    Mr.Patire
    With all due respect my personal and professinal history is not the issue here. If I am a martial artist is completely irrelevent to the matter at hand. You respond to legitamate questions on the background of a martial system by changing the subject and making heavy handed attempts at intimidation.
    I read an article written by yourself stating you encourage people to ask questions concerning the lineage of martial arts and the people teaching them and that any reputable instructor would be more than happy to answer them. The matter at hand is Homdo itís history and independent sources of verification. The questions posed are all legitamate according to your own article. I have made no claims only asked questions based on your claims.
    I find it very interesting that you expect people to submit to background checks in order to ask questions but you will not give answers to direct and simple questions. The questions that have been posed are
    1----- I would like to know how we could contact R.S. Stantin and Sam Kayes about the history of Homdo and their lineage for verification that the art exists. I would also like to get a timeline of when they were in the Philippines as I know people in both Cebu and Korea and there is no history in either country of the art.
    2---- I have read much material written by yourself and would like to try to get a timeline of your early martial arts career. Who did you train Aikido under, what was his rank and his lineage and your final rank. When did you train Homdo in the Philippines itself and when and where in the US (what years) as in the histories I have read previously your martial arts timeline and your educational resume have a number of discrepancies i.e. in high school at the same time as training in overseas.
    3----Are there any Homdo instructors trained by your teachers who were not your direct students and how might they be contacted.
    People who make up there own Martial Arts systems are not the issue. The issue is the truthful background of Homdo. The questions as you have said in your own writings are very reasonable and standard. People should expect to have them answered without temperamental outbursts and veiled threats.
    If you should choose to ignore them or are unable to come up with a plausible response maybe you could let us know some of these court cases you say you testified in as I ma sure some of the attorneys involved may be interested in doing a little more research for appeals based on testimony by ďHomdo expertsĒ
  4. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    8/05/2002 1:07am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every advanced martial artist should have his own personal system. That is why they call it martial ART. The martial arts are supposed to be creative and expressive. Individual physical expressions of our self like a fingerprint. For more on this read the Tao of Jeet Kun Do.

    Musashi invented his own system.

    Instead of worrying about whether or not a guy has papers. Worry about whether or not what he is teaching makes sense and if it works.

    That being said - no martial artist should claim to be something he is not or make up a background for his art. If you want credability then give free demonstrations, write articles and books, test your system in competition.

    There have been plenty of Soke who made their own style over the years. Even a couple in the UFC. I made up my own system. No, you can't get fancy belts or trophies that way. If that is what you want then go to the ATA.

    my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!
  5. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2002 11:03am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >Every advanced martial artist should have his own personal system. That is why they call it martial ART.

    I whole heartedly agree with the first part but the ART in Martial Art just means SKILL not ART like painting.

    >Instead of worrying about whether or not a guy has papers. Worry about whether or not what he is teaching makes sense and if it works.

    I would have to slightly disagree. Bruce Lee, Musashi, Oyama, Ueshiba, etc. Founded their own style BUT they all had creditable training first. If someone comes out of the blue with an ART with no previous training I would HIGHLY suspect it.

    >There have been plenty of Soke who made their own style over the years

    Do you know whats wrong with this? First off SOKE greatly misused by westernes. Soke is a title that you are GIVEN (like ALL other asian titles) and you do not bestow it on yourself. Soke generally means 'Head of the household" it is given is passed down NOT created. (Sosai would be better for that)

    I have found pple who can't pay attention to the minor details such as that don't pay attention to the minor things in the art.

    Also the History (aka lineage, it is more than who taught who) of an art is very important. Why? Because the history of the art will give you insight to how the techniques work and why they were created an included. Often when you here pple say, "This is ineffective or that is useless." tend to not know about the art and how the technique works and why. Koryu (Ancient School) arts are BATTLE TESTED pple lived and died by their skills. It helps to understand how they did it by studying the history.

    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  6. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    8/05/2002 11:59am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those are good points.

    But painting is a skill too. Most arts require skill. You study under a master learning the techniques he uses to paint. Eventually you have to get yor own sense of style or you end up a pale copy. I don't mean everyone should start a new martial arts school. Just that everybody should have their own personal version. Be creative and yourself. That's all I meant.

    I guess that is true about those men. Musashi claimed to have a gift from birth but he did go to school for formal training. Bruce Lee did study under Ip Man for a few years as a Boyscout even though Jun Fan was his own reconstruction of classical Kung Fu that he made from research he did in America. (see the documentary Bruce Lee: Curse of the Dragon) and JKD was what he developed later on after more explration into other arts. Ueshiba and Oyama are remarkable examples of innovators.. Wally Jay, Benny the Jet. :)

    I agree. I don't think making your own style is for begginers unless that is your only suitable option. JKD may not even be for begginers. But every martial art had a founder somewhere along the line.
    I don't think all of them were innovators. Some of them were creators.

    I am sure there are a lot of people could sit down and create a decent martial art if they really thought it through - if they weren't required to come up with something totally original. There just isn't a big need for that anymore. There are so many good styles out there now. I think they have already covered everything.

    When I say that I made my own style, I mean for myself. I don't plan on trying to get some kind of recognition. I just prefer to study in my own way.

    The guy from the UFC may have been self-proclaimed. I don't remember. I am pretty sure it was in UFC 1. They announced him as a "soke" when he came to the ring. He lost.

    I never claimed anything but that there had been plenty of soke over the years. I think that holds true. I didn't get the term wrong.

    I understand what you are saying about history being important. I have a degree in history. "To be ignorant of the past is to remain a child." hat is how Cicero put it.

    That being said, Karate is less that 200 years old. TKD is younger still. An art doesn't have to be as old as the hills to be good. Funakoshi put Karate into the public schools before it was tested in any wars or large battles.


    my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!
  7. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    8/05/2002 1:37pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    p.s.

    Ron Van Clief was also in UFC 1 and he too is a founder of his own style. I think he is a "soke"

    Also, yes I know te and karate had been demonstrated and tested in individual combat before their introduction into the public schools but they had never proved useful in a major war or battle at the time. In fact the whole system was invented as a result of the people being conquered and banned from carrying weapons.

    I don't mean to insult Karate (or any style) - I just mean to point out that every style has its beggining somewhere and those who invented them were men and not gods.

    I know Karate has been BATTLE TESTED since then. It has evolved a bit too.

    I know what you are saying, relax.

    Wrestling, for example was invented in Greece but many of the moves you see today have American names like the Gibson or the Gramby or the Nelson. Every art is tested andgrows and evolves over time. I know what you are saying.

    But that is the very reason we should be open to new ideas. The history should be preserved but new ideas should be encouraged.


    my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!
  8. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2002 7:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >Ron Van Clief was also in UFC 1 and he too is a founder of his own style. I think he is a "soke"

    No Glenn Perry is SOKE in Chinese Goju since he now carries on the school. Van Clief is generally refered to as SHIDOSHI.

    I have communicated with Perry via email. I used to study under one of his best instructors. Thomas Felder.


    >But that is the very reason we should be open to new ideas. The history should be preserved but new ideas should be encouraged.

    I agree!!!




    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  9. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    8/06/2002 6:36am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder if anyone older than Ron will ever be in the UFC. I think he was in his 60s already when he was in UFC 1, right?

    my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!
  10. nijaboy28 is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 2:59pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tom Patire is one of the Best Martial artists in the World.
    he does not need to answer your Bloosheeet Questions.Cdt does make him money, it is a very effective self defense system.People get what they pay for with it.Patire runs his Hom-do school about as hardcore as u can get.He could waterdown Hom-do and make a ton of money, but decides not to.I have Seen the effective use of Hom-do in street situations first hand.Who really cares about where it came from,what part of korea?who taught it first?Do u want to study it?Anyway it is my understanding that it is very similar to hwarang do(joo bang lee)
    if u know anything about that style,u would know that it has many aspects,joint locks,fancy kicks,weapons like ,sword,staff ,short sticks. Hom-do is centered around pressure points, joint locks,kempo like striking patterns,jap.jiu-jitsu throws.weapons are knife ,gun ,clubs defense /offense. In order to recive a Blackbelt in Hom-Do u need to know how to fire a hand gun(not many mcdojos do that I'm sure) Tom Patire is no fraud ,and I'm sure if u talked to him face to face he would prove it
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