Time for a change of arts...?

[CrimsonTiger]

Ok, here's a question that I've run into recently. When does one know when they need to move on? As most of you know I belond to a traditional (but progressive...yes, sounds conflicted, because it is!) dojo. I did the whole "got my blackbelt" thing...and find myself thinking "so now what"? I've struggled over the last few months to improve my sparring, groundwork, bagwork, strength...basically my new objective has been to look at some possible amateur full-contact fights (not necessarily MMA, maybe kickboxing or whatever I can find here in the area).

I got bitched out last week by my Sensei because I "never wear my gi anymore" (code for spending too much time in gi pants and a t-shirt, working in the gym or hitting bags and not enough on kata/class). It drove home how much I think I've moved away from my traditional training in many ways. This is not to say I intend to leave it, I like where I train and the people I train under/with. But I don't think I can ONLY train there much longer without feeling smothered. Paradoxally, there are several EXCELLENT teachers with DECADES of experience to teach...I can't possibly have exhausted them as resources yet...so how do I know when I need to move on? I'm sure this is a common situation, so any inputs?

I ask one thing...please don't turn this into a MMA vs. TMA crapfest. I haven't asked for what arts to add to my repetoire, because that's my business. Maybe I'll stick with TMA, maybe not. It's not really relevant because either way one can outgrow their current place of training. I'm just curious what others have done in this situation and why?

Regards,
CrimsonTiger

"I would never, in my life, wear black silk underwear" -Classic JCVD

[Fisting Kittens]

I've been there before and initially I did what you are considering. I kept up at my old school and added some training time at a new school. But I found it increasingly hard to keep going back to my traditional school. There was a lot of solid teaching going on there, but it didn't mesh with my mindset. So eventually I just jettisoned the old and embraced the new. (This is by no means an indictment of traditional arts in favor of MMA) I just found that MMA type schools work better with my attitude and mindset and I can therefore accomplish more with my training time. This is different for everybody. So check out some other schools and see if maybe there is one that clicks with you more strongly than your current school.

[patfromlogan]

Sounds like you are getting burned out - I don't know "how do I know when I need to move on," but I do know that I've trained in lots of different schools and sometimes more than the system or instructor, it's the other students that keep me interested.

Two weeks ago I got to work out with a Kempo school in Hawaii and would love to continue with them, partly because of the style and partly because of the friendly people. There are two Kempo schools that just opened up here, they mite be ok, but they are Ed Parker branches, rather than Kajukenbo branches.

>>>Always walk on a bright, wide road. If you choose to live with your right posture, you don't have to go on a dark road or a malodorous place. Oyama

[Thai_Kick]

CrimsonTiger… Don't sacrifice self-expression for tradition!

I originally trained in 5 animal Kung Fu for 2.5 years, before I moved on to Muay Thai and MMA. When I started in Kung Fu I loved it, I would go to class everyday and train hard. At the beginning I learned all the basics (kicks, punches, stances, blocks…) We also did a lot of self defense scenarios and I thought it was all great, I even tested and passed my yellow, orange and purple sash in 1 year of training. Then I got my red sash and I began to spar and do forms, this is where everything changed for me. I was forced to spar and use techniques my Sifu wanted, and not use what I felt comfortable with or that were effective from another style. I'm sorry but a horse stance and a crane guard isn't going to cut it in the streets. So I would ALWAYS argue about being forced to use techniques that just don't work and I also FUCKEN HATED FORMS, THEY WERE A WASTE OF MY TIME, when we did forms I would ask my Sifu if I could do push ups, sit ups or other exercises because at least I would get something out of it, unlike forms which I would get nothing from. I slowly stopped going to class because I was forced into believing in a set way and was unable to think and do for myself because of "tradition" (Yeah, well tradition can kiss my ass!) So I left and never looked back! Since then I've been training in Muay Thai, JKD, BJJ and compete in MMA, grappling and Muay Thai fights/tournaments. I have NO SET WAY anymore, I can reject anything I want, I can use what works for ME as a result I only have MY WAY and it works!
CrimsonTiger do what YOU want, train the way YOU want, fight the way YOU want and put YOURSELF in a position where YOU want to be. Also always remember don't sacrifice self-expression for tradition!


Muay Thai Rule #1 - Knock the mother out!

Edited by - Thai_Kick on February 10 2003 16:24:23

[Rogue]

I took a break and pursued just certain parts of the art(TKD)that interested me the most at this time. In this day and age it's easy to get information on the martial arts without having to wait to become a 10th dan. It's also easy to train in other styles. Right now I'm looking into taking some kickboxing that's taught at another TKD school.

[8t88]

Ok, here's a question that I've run into recently. When does one know when they need to move on?

My view on martial training is that learning the principles are more important than the specific techniques. It's that learning, mastering, then breaking the rules anecdote. That's why someone who's mastered some art doesn't have such a steep learning curve if they decide to pick-up another -they've already got alot of the principles learned.

Likewise I feel there's a point in most arts, well before you score that vaunted highest colour sash, that everything starts to look the same. Those super-secret techniques that your teacher has been keeping around until "you were ready" (to afford them), don't really seem all that special, since you've got the principles of the art by that point.

I think the time to move on is when your training time isn't spent learning the art, but just making it prettier. That's a good time to go pick-up some new principles to add to the mix.

8t88

[CrimsonTiger]

I appreciate the feedback thus far (others, please contribute!)...don't get me wrong, my dojo isn't so traditional that it's stifling. I think it's more that the focus of the dojo isn't combat and since I've achieved my blackbelt rank I've basically become obsessed with being a genuine combative "veteran" before trying to "teach" anyone anything (I'd like to do some teaching/coaching I think eventually). I've no expectation to go UFC styles or anything of the sort...but like I said, stepping into a few real full-contact situations to test myself. The domain where most MAs (MMA and TMA) in general THINK they can tread, but fear to...

As for the social aspect, part of the appeal of my club was (and still is) the social closeness of a good group of people. However, it's an acknowledged fact that I'm one of the more socially involved people of the club (and no, I don't sit and socialize, I just have an excellent memory and learn how to make people feel welcome and enjoy themselves)...I must admit I'm getting kind of tired of being one of the 'engines' of the club and no longer feel I'm getting quite as much out of it as I'm putting in.

I think I've already answered myself...I will eventually dabble elsewhere and keep a relatively cursory relationship at this club (perhaps teach their white/yellow classes, simple basics and a good workout) but I still want to hear of arts others pursued and situations they dealt with. The added insight will definitely help me figure out some of the details of my future.

Regards,
CrimsonTiger

"I would never, in my life, wear black silk underwear" -Classic JCVD

[gong sau]

I (fairly) recently 'switched' arts. Don't get me wrong, I had absolutely no problem with my previous art, which I still train every day. I just got to the point with it where I was learning more through mutual discussion with general training partners and on my own through introspection, than I was actually being taught.

To be learning from those with a lot of experience is great, but at some point your own experience should be of greater import. I find you also need to change your surroundings every now and then or you begin to stagnate. After a while any club can become "same ol' same 'ol", and new experiences help to stimulate your mind, which in turn helps to further your training.

[gong sau]

BTW, please don't read into any of the previous post that I think I've reached the pinnacle of my previous art or any bullshit like that. I still have a long way to go, but I don't need a teacher anymore, just a wider variety of training partners. Hope this makes sense.

[Blad3]

Crimson, to be honest, I just started submission fighting when training TMA, then eventually stopped when my TMA contract ended. That's what I decided - to continue with submission fighting


Edited by - blade windu on February 10 2003 21:04:12