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  1. Hiji kime is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 6:19am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    GRECO: I understand what you mean and I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the negative side of the MA. I think the act of bowing and its significance is not made clear by a lot of instructors and is often abused, as you mentioned.

    I'm perfectly comfortable with bowing and other traditions in the MA. As an Asian, respect for seniors and the understanding of a pecking order is part of our culture. Fighting ability is part of it but is not the sole reason for respecting your seniors in the art.

    If that were the case, then the elder leaders of the different arts like Helio Gracie would be tossed aside as soon as the new young king of the hill beats them in a match. You respect the seniors for studying the art longer than you have, and / or teaching you. The key here is that the senior/s must give respect back to their students by not abusing them and the system that gives them that respect. Fortunately I've studied under instructors who have been exceptional examples of this tradition. Likewise, as an instructor, I make sure I don't let my student do anything I am not prepared to do myself nor will I abuse my position as their teacher and elder.

    Bottom line: the system is there and it's part of tradition. if it's abused, blame the immaturity and morals of the people invovled.
  2. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 6:21am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    SENSEI mean BEFORE STUDENT it refers to ANYONE teaching you something. In asian countries you bow. It is THEIR CULTURE. If you are not of the culture you don't have to do it. Some pple keep bowing because of how they learned and to keep the cultural roots and if you learn from them you should keep their rules as long as you are there. BJJ is NO different a DOGI wasn't invented in Brazil but they use it don't they. So pple do things outside their culture.

    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!


    "I love you Asia" - I Give BJJs Posted - December 25 2002 : 10:40:09
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  3. DanSevering is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 7:46am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Gracie schools I went to were pretty lame in that it seemed pretty disorganized, and I had to end up learning everything myself-- however this gave me the advantage of knowing it better than everyone else by becoming a technical fighter rather than being bound by a style.

    I think the Gracies are pretty much in it just for the money, they don't care how crappily a school is run, so long as they get their annual dues and royalties. They also teach moves by rote, just like other schools, instead of teching the theory behind them.
  4. Balloonknot is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 11:43am


     Style: lame

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i agree with DanSevering. Right On. It's about time someone said something critical about the Gracie.
  5. k-diddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 11:50am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just think it's stupid, in the year 2002 in America (where I live) for me as a 29 year old adult to be constantly bowing to some guy and calling him "master" or some stupid title while I'm paying him a lot of money to take self-defense from him. There are certainly gradations to my feeling about this, if I took a seminar with some huge grandmaster who actually lives in a foreign country then of course I would try to follow their customs and not disrespect him, but if I'm taking some TKD class from some guy in the US (which I did for 2 years as a kid), it's pretty self-aggrandazing of the guy (I think) to try to enforce these artificial titles of respect.

    That's one thing a lot of people like about BJJ, your coaches don't force you to respect them with false titles/gestures, they don't stay aloof and unapproachable, and they roll with students every day-- it doesn't take long to earn your respect that way.
  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 12:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >I just think it's stupid, in the year 2002 in America (where I live) for me as a 29 year old adult to be constantly bowing to some guy and calling him "master" or some stupid title while I'm paying him a lot of money to take self-defense from him. There are certainly gradations to my feeling about this, if I took a seminar with some huge grandmaster who actually lives in a foreign country then of course I would try to follow their customs and not disrespect him, but if I'm taking some TKD class from some guy in the US (which I did for 2 years as a kid), it's pretty self-aggrandazing of the guy (I think) to try to enforce these artificial titles of respect

    His house his rules. Don't like it leave. Simple as that. Stop whining.



    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!


    "I love you Asia" - I Give BJJs Posted - December 25 2002 : 10:40:09
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  7. Boyd is offline
    Boyd's Avatar

    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 3:33pm

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rock on, Asia.

    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon
  8. Boyd is offline
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    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 3:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    By the way, does anyone else find it odd how passionately some people hate to bow? I mean, I don't care. I usually bow after getting a lesson, and we get damn good ones at my school, so I don't mind bowing. Ask most people, though, and they begin turning bright red and begin screaming about what a fascist evil arrogant hypocritical Stalinistic practice it is. Jesus people, it's just an Eastern handshake. Lighten up.

    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon
  9. Carbon is offline

    Village Idiot

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    Dallas, Texas
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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 7:55pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Who gives a **** if they don't want to bow, your not them and they aren't you if they dont' want to bow then stfu about it.
    I'll make one when I can find one I like.
  10. k-diddy is offline

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    Jan 2003
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    62

    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 8:22pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well it's definitely a free country, so if a McSensei wants to make people bow to him and call him master in his school he has every right.

    And if I don't want to go to his school I won't (which I don't anymore).

    And if I want to bash him for this I can (which I will)

    My point was that I just think it's refreshing how in BJJ and some other arts I've taken class in (KM and MT) they do away with all the traditions and formality and titles and just focus on self-defense, exercise, and competition.

    Carbon, were you at class Sunday? I'm going to try to be at Vale Tudo Thursday.
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