Ki Skeptics

**Ken Oh** · Posted On: 2/12/2003 8:07pm

"What gave you the impression that we wouldn't know what an abstraction was?"

Do you want me to start insulting you again?

And, nope, the Chinese character for qi4 (mystical energy) is the exact same one used for qi4 (air). In fact, air, or oxygen, does hold energy. This energy is released when inhaled when used to break down sugars to create ATP.

Great, some EAMA's don't deal with qi. That means they have gone past the point of dealing with unexistant, mystical energies. I still say those techniques were developed under the system of qi. Read my earlier posts. The ancients didn't know about intertia, angular momentum, kinetic energy, etc. so they developed methods based on the concept of qi. If you have a EAMA, then somewhere along the line there was this theory.

Sheol, dude, re-read my earlier ****. Just because the sun isn't a god on a chariot (boolean "false") doesn't negate it from being a big fucking hot thing in the sky.

More than that, I'm trying to bridge the gap between the people who believe in a wrong concept (yet one that works) and those who know better (yet still use the system).

Edited by - Ken Oh on February 12 2003 20:17:08

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 2/12/2003 8:16pm

"Do you want me to start insulting you again?"

No, do you want me start, AT ALL? So your impression of me was that I was comparatively ignorant? Interesting. I thought you were a valuable new contributing member.
As I understand it qi4 is rarely used by itself to refer to air that is breathed. Isn't it some equivalent of kong-gi (Korean)?
I think that there are EAMAs that are prior to exposure to Chinese culture, especially those practiced at the level of the illiterate peasantry, that are basically "pre-qi". Taekkyon for example.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

**Ken Oh** · Posted On: 2/12/2003 8:19pm

Again, The Wastrel, try to not take yourself or me too seriously.

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 2/12/2003 8:34pm

Life is too short and too fragile, love, sympathy, respect and humanity too rare and too easily abandoned, pleasure, comfort, sanity, and friendship too easily lost to ever take another human being less than seriously in every way. I am neither casual with insult, nor casual with the reception of insult. I define what is and is not acceptable behavior to me, as you should for yourself. It has nothing to do with taking anything too seriously, only as seriously as it deserves.
Additionally, a number of personal and familial crises have effectively tapped my reserves of tolerance. I am doing my best to avoid succumbing through reliance on very formalized courtesies. Don't take it personally, and don't read it as a character flaw, rather understand that I am doing my best to keep my now-fragile composure.
Also, no need to refer to me as "the" all the time. Wastrel is a nickname my mother gave me, and the definite article is just there to alert people to the fact that it is not a proper noun. It's an underused word, and most people don't know it. I'm not "The Rock".

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

**Sheol** · Posted On: 2/12/2003 8:42pm

Ken Oh:

I do understand that you want to "bridge the gap", but I don't understand why it is necessary at all. If I don't believe in something that another person does, why is it necessary for me to redefine chi/ki in order to coexist? It smacks of pretense... pretense that there isn't some sort of difference in belief.

Once more, comprehension does not equate to agreement. One can comprehend what others believe without believing in it. One can respect that others choose to believe in something that one does not. However, why should there be a need for some sort of 'bridge'? A person who does not believe in chi/ki, doesn't need the bridge and doesn't need to use chi/ki as an abstract for scientific understanding.

It IS a form of pretense. Why should it matter if someone professes a belief in "chi"? It's for the benefit of those that do. It's not for the benefit of the person who does not believe in chi/ki. It's political correctness in the martial art world. It's intentional behavior calculated to cause another person to believe (or act in a manner that conveys such belief) that the politically correct person does or does not hold certain beliefs that are a cause of friction between certain parties.

Edited by - Sheol on February 12 2003 20:45:42

**The Wastrel** · Posted On: 2/12/2003 8:55pm

I just want to note that, given the right circumstances, I can be really quite funny. Right guys?

*crickets chirp* *dogs bark in the distance*

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

**Dochter** · Posted On: 2/12/2003 9:03pm

Henceforth when doing breathing exercises in class and doing an dan/tanjen workout (which is just a non-impact warmup) I while mentally label it as cultivating "spoon". This should help eliminate confusion and will be the new word for the combination of phenomena formerly named "qi". This renaming will remove the metaphysical and religious baggage associated with the word qi.

So as to ensure that I still have a full vocabulary the utensil formerly named "spoon" will now be referred to as qi, ki, or chi dependig on where the utensil was manufactured.

I encourage all right minded and clear thinking individuals to do the same.

**Oh my god! I don't wanna go to THE STREET mommy! All the mean crazy psycho ninjas pick on me and take my lunch money.**

**PizDoff** · Posted On: 2/12/2003 9:47pm

did someone say mystical energy?

"the word for Qi is the same word in Chinese for air. If you practice proper breathing as taught in a martial art, then you are following a tradition that involves Qi."
This is true, or it can explained as "life force"
but this is the Chinese "definition" so "others" may be different

Dochter-There is no spoon. So you seem excited for Matrix 2.

and yes, i can make some satirical observations
ah well believe what you want.

Psychologically, believing "chi" exists works for me.

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There are only three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.