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  1. SamHarber is offline

    Taking a break

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 3:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Check out http://www.bullshido.us/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1614&FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID= 8&Topic_Title=Qi%2C+Chi%2C+Ki%2C+Whatever& Forum_Title=General+Discussion
    which is the main qi/chi/ki thread
    http://www.bullshido.us/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1689&FORUM_ID=2&CAT_ID= 8&Topic_Title=Chi+is+a+big+wobbly+pile+of+stea ming+%26%25%24%26&Forum_Title=General+Discussi on
    also touches on it.
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989
  2. Ken Oh is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 5:27pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, after reading up, I can say that Crimson Tiger is talking at about my wavelength here:

    "Chi isn't likely one force, it's probably several different phenomena thrown together under this mystic element."

    Eating, digestion and excretion are also a bunch of phenomena that may appear 'mystic'. It doesn't matter if it stays under mystic terms or not. All that matters is that we eat and poop comes out the other end. The mystery of Ki is that we can't ever see the trees for the forest.

    This poses a problem when we try to find out what is good for our training and what is useless. But when you guys say that Ki is totally foreign to the scientific method, you are wrong. Proper Ki training is in fact the culmination of thousands of years of 'scientific' research. Just because there weren't people in white lab coats doesn't mean that science wasn't applied. I'm sure they tested proper breathing versus improper breathing and found that one developed better energy. They encorporated into their 'system' and called it 'ki'.

    Now, along the road, I'm sure plenty of useless things have been accrued. That's why I think you're better off using a minimum of 'Ki' training, picking and choosing what is actually useful. What I'm really saying is that if you find something worthy of practicing, it's part of your system. In East Asia, they might call that Ki or Chi or whatever.
  3. gong sau is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 8:12pm

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     Style: Brazillian Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >All that matters is that we eat and poop comes out the other end.

    LOL. So that's where you got the "Chi is a big wobbly pile of steaming s***" comment from, eh SamHarber?
    -----------------------------------------------------
    "The difference between us, and other martial arts websites you might be looking for, is that we're not going to feed you, well, bullshit about martial arts."
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  4. CrimsonTiger is offline
    CrimsonTiger's Avatar

    RAAAAAAR! Fear the Tiger!

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 10:32pm

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     Style: Karate/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, someone actually agreed with me?!?!

    Cool.

    For the record, I still think Chi is at best a conceptual catch-all term and is for most intents and purposes crap. I've wasted all the time and bytes I intend to in my previous postings, as I'm sure Wastrel and the rest of them have.

    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "You kicked me in the HEAD! You NEVER throw kicks! How'd you do that? Wires?!" - Sempai Phil (my last sparring partner)
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine
  5. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 10:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Qi is not a name for a variety of phenomena. It is the explanation for the existence of these phenomena. It is the motivator. Read the threads above and if your questions aren't answered, feel free to ask me, but none of us really want to deal with the same old problems all over again. It's already up.

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  6. Vargas is offline
    Vargas's Avatar

    The Man with No Neck

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 11:04pm

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     Style: submission wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two words, dude. Scientific Method.
    "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


    - George Plimpton
    "Shadow Box"
  7. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 11:23pm

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Um...what's the puzzle about punching out a candle flame?

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  8. Ken Oh is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 7:29am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, Vargas, I mentioned the scientific method and how it relates to Ki. What about it?

    What puzzle?

    The Wastrel, you said, "It is the explanation for the existence of these phenomena." That is basically what I'm getting at when I say system. There is a system in place. Various things are part of that system, and these things are explained by that system.

    I'm arguing something different. I'm arguing that the system works (to an extent) without there being a real "energy" involved. Just because we realized that the sun really isn't a god that travels through the sky in a chariot doesn't mean the sun won't come up the next day. I added the (to an extent) because certain things DO change when we realized that the sun wasn't a god. We no longer had to worship him to ensure that he would come up the next day. Other than that, the system works just like it did before.

    This is my argument for Ki. We realize that there isn't a "mystical energy" called Ki. What changes is that we're not going to think that maybe one day we can fly or acheive immortality because of it. What doesn't change are various practices used to develop Ki (proper breathing, focus on center of gravity, etc.) that still work. The phenomena haven't changed (other than ones disproved) but the explanation has.
  9. DanSevering is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 8:08am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it's a metaphor for relaxation and focus.
  10. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 10:36am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Qi doesn't come from religion, it comes from metaphysics.
    Why do we want to believe in a non-existent force?

    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
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