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View Poll Results: How do you pass the guard?

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  • From standing.

    25 31.65%
  • From the knees.

    54 68.35%
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  1. Bang! is offline
    Bang!'s Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2004 9:18am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogyman
    You would take the left arm and reach under the right side of your opponent . . .
    Hang on, your right side, or the opponent's right side?
  2. TylerDurden is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2004 9:26am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/HapKiDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Definitely, I completely agree about keeping your trapped arm down and to the side. I never meant to imply otherwise on that account. Never let your arm get pulled across. I even used a trick I saw Rampage use in a Pride event for that. If they have your wrist and forearm over their body, push your elbow towards the floor. Once your elbow is against their hip they cannot pull the arm across. It's good for a last ditch defense when they get the jump on you.
    Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
  3. Boogyman is offline
    Boogyman's Avatar

    Professional Fighter

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2004 10:56am

    supporting member
     Style: MMA (and others)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your LEFT arm, reaches under the opponents RIGHT hip.

    In some cases (using the same scenario) you can take your right arm and grab the inner thigh by your throught (their left leg) and pull the inner thigh outward (helps to create some space-not much, but some). Also if you do this make sure that you grab tight on the inner thigh, and pull your own right elbow down (to your side) while you look up (leaves a few more options open to the individual).
    Good Luck!!
    [A friend once told me he found Jennifer Connelly hot.
    "Would she still be hot if she were melting in a car wreck, like at the end of Pollock, smelling of burnt hair and bubbling intestines?" I asked.
    "Oh hell yeah."
    "How? How would you even have sex with her?"
    "Just let her cool and fold her over, like an omolette."
    Since then we've always had this universal sign for Jennifer Connelly, it's like an "opening a book" motion, only backwards. And we are often known to softly remark "....like an omolette".]--boyd
  4. Red Elvis is offline
    Red Elvis's Avatar

    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2004 1:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Santa Claus
    Pushing with your elbows on the inner thighs is just asking for a triangle. They push the hand through. I do this all the time.
    Weird... I never get triangled when passing low while using my elbows in the thighs to break the legs. What skill level of people are you catching when you do this and what is the position of their arms that allows a triangle? I keep my arms tight to their body and once the guard breaks my arms are no longer inside. Two in or two out at all times is the motto I remember being stressed from my BJJ days. All my low pass variations whether stacking, passing over the thighs or shucking the legs over the shoulders/head are done in a manner that prevents triangle attempts. I think what you are talking about are the old school passes where the arm is still inside while you try to stack? Let me know as I'm curious what either they are doing or what you are doing.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  5. Gumby is offline

    BJJ Purple Belt

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2004 2:19pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RedElvis
    Weird... I never get triangled when passing low while using my elbows in the thighs to break the legs. What skill level of people are you catching when you do this and what is the position of their arms that allows a triangle? I keep my arms tight to their body and once the guard breaks my arms are no longer inside. Two in or two out at all times is the motto I remember being stressed from my BJJ days. All my low pass variations whether stacking, passing over the thighs or shucking the legs over the shoulders/head are done in a manner that prevents triangle attempts. I think what you are talking about are the old school passes where the arm is still inside while you try to stack? Let me know as I'm curious what either they are doing or what you are doing.

    I prefer to pass low myself, and I rarely get caught in triangles. As long as your elbow and knee stay connected, I think you're pretty safe with whichever pass it is you're attempting (when I pass, I always do so with one knee up)
  6. Boogyman is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/23/2004 2:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: MMA (and others)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RedElvis
    Weird... I never get triangled when passing low while using my elbows in the thighs to break the legs. What skill level of people are you catching when you do this and what is the position of their arms that allows a triangle? I keep my arms tight to their body and once the guard breaks my arms are no longer inside. Two in or two out at all times is the motto I remember being stressed from my BJJ days. All my low pass variations whether stacking, passing over the thighs or shucking the legs over the shoulders/head are done in a manner that prevents triangle attempts. I think what you are talking about are the old school passes where the arm is still inside while you try to stack? Let me know as I'm curious what either they are doing or what you are doing.
    If your opponent can control your head/upper torso (but prefferably the head) you will be triangled/armbarred/etc. What they are reffering to is keeping low to defend with a low base, but getting caught with the head too low, or letting the opponents control it "just enough" to achieve the sub.

    Please, correct me if I am wrong.
    [A friend once told me he found Jennifer Connelly hot.
    "Would she still be hot if she were melting in a car wreck, like at the end of Pollock, smelling of burnt hair and bubbling intestines?" I asked.
    "Oh hell yeah."
    "How? How would you even have sex with her?"
    "Just let her cool and fold her over, like an omolette."
    Since then we've always had this universal sign for Jennifer Connelly, it's like an "opening a book" motion, only backwards. And we are often known to softly remark "....like an omolette".]--boyd
  7. TylerDurden is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2004 2:55pm


     Style: BJJ/Judo/HapKiDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pass with your hips low, but keep your posture straight.
    Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
  8. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    12/23/2004 6:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Boogyman
    If your opponent can control your head/upper torso (but prefferably the head) you will be triangled/armbarred/etc. What they are reffering to is keeping low to defend with a low base, but getting caught with the head too low, or letting the opponents control it "just enough" to achieve the sub.

    Please, correct me if I am wrong.
    “What we have here is failure to communicate. Which is the way he wants it… well, he gets it!”

    Probably my fault here as I suck at typing techniques but let me explain how I like to pass.

    1. Start off with my opponents legs securely locked around my waist in the guard in a neutral position.
    2. My posture in the guard is always to have my back more or less 90 degrees to his body with head up.
    3. My hands grab his belt/gi pants/shorts with my knuckles facing my opponent about 6" apart at least (close to the outer hips) and my body weight pushing into him to make him uncomfortable and to prevent him from sitting up to control my torso or head. My base is low and centered on my knees to avoid being swept.
    4. My elbows are pushing on his inner thighs and my arms are slightly bent and are tight to him. At this point there is no way for him to triangle me.
    5. Next my right knee goes directly against his tailbone or in the middle of his cheeks as one person here has said.
    6. The left leg now gets raised so the weight is on my foot and is far back so as not to allow him to grab it with his hands. (Note: I am still balanced with my weight low on one knee and one foot with a wide base).
    7. At this point he is feeling pressure against his gut, his tailbone and his thighs and my arms are still angled and tight to him. (Note: I am a bony mofo’ with very pointy elbows… bwahahaha). There is still no way for him to triangle me.
    8. I begin to apply pressure until his legs break and immediately my left arm is free and clear going either to his right knee to secure a hold or under/around his right thigh to control his hip. My right arm will either be pinned with my elbow to my knee/thigh with arm still bent and tight controlling his left thigh or it can go to grabbing his left knee or it can wrap under/around and control his left hip depending on what I am trying. Note that once the legs break there is no arm with which to triangle. They are both out. The only thing that might be inside would be my right fist and the lower portion of my right forearm on the one technique but this would be to block/control his left leg thus preventing the triangle.
    9. I go on to pass…

    At no point above is my opponent controlling my head, my torso or in a position to take my arm for a triangle. If he gets a hold of my head or torso then I clear the problem and continue on or return a step or two to a secure position. I’m in no hurry. If he manages to get a hold of my arm and begins to bring it back in then my other arm comes back in and again I am not in trouble. Two in, two out always.

    Please explain what you mean by “if your opponent controls the head or torso you will get triangled or arm barred.” In order to do either of those you need an arm. Having control of the head or torso doesn’t give you one of those. Hell, the guy I train under now loves to grab and control the head/torso but I’m in no danger. Please explain. :read:

    Also, please remember I am grappling without a gi. Although I still pass the same with one if I remember correctly so I guess that point is mute.

    Edit: Oh yeah, with these starting positions for my passes I don't even need to break his legs. When my left leg goes back it creates space where my left arm can immediately go under/around his right thigh. My right arm immediately goes under and around his left thigh and I have a few options.
    Last edited by Red Elvis; 12/23/2004 6:07pm at . Reason: more info more info more info <slap>
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  9. Boogyman is offline
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    Professional Fighter

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2004 9:57am

    supporting member
     Style: MMA (and others)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I hope you folks had a good Christmas. I did, now onto business:
    RedElvis; (I also work mainly w/o the gi)
    -Good techs.
    -Very safe techs. (not a bad thing at all BTW) But as you well know there is ALOT less time to make perfect passes, especially w/o the gi, as well as the "slippery" factor. So when a person is training with somone who is used to the gi the movements are going to be slower, more methodical, more technical. There are going to be times when you or they are tired, cannot grip, and have a more than usual difficult time keeping balance, and as soon as that happens...
    -There are many different ways to pass/unbalance/move/etc. and to go through them all would take more time than even a simple seminar, so I'll do my best:
    1) When you are passing (no matter how strong the pass is) somone, somewhere is working on that counter to that particular move (and you may just end up facing them one day) Work multiple passes/speeds/strengths of partners...etc. (It may be a given, but I put it in there anyway)
    2) If a person pushes your head to one side, or up, or down, AND THEY MOVE THE HIPS-regardless of how strong you are, you are in an inferior position. (Why) because the have now angled off on you and you must get away-or return to a neutral position. This is where the action is-you have to pull away (you are not just pulling yourself away you are pushing something else, somewhere...), or you are driving to a neutral position (pushing your body weight into a sweepable/counterable position...). These things are not negotiable if you use your weight/strength/tech against an opponent you are in one of these scenarios on a constant basis. The key is to use your whole body to LEVERAGE one way or the other, and never-NEVER allow something to be isolated (even your weight).
    3) If they do push your head (let's say down) and they MOVE THE HIPS out-they will put your head against the mat-then you cannot be triangled/armbarred/etc. but at that point a triangle is moot.
    4) Not just controll of the head (my bad explanation of this is evident) but control of the head and one shoulder. This will make a much more evident difference.
    5) Against a person that is very experienced odds are they will not leave their legs wrapped tightly around you. They will be setting you up for a reversal/sub or something else entirely, but will let you "break" open the legs for them to gain the superior position.

    I hope that clarified a few things. Also no disrespect is intended (if it came across that way).
    [A friend once told me he found Jennifer Connelly hot.
    "Would she still be hot if she were melting in a car wreck, like at the end of Pollock, smelling of burnt hair and bubbling intestines?" I asked.
    "Oh hell yeah."
    "How? How would you even have sex with her?"
    "Just let her cool and fold her over, like an omolette."
    Since then we've always had this universal sign for Jennifer Connelly, it's like an "opening a book" motion, only backwards. And we are often known to softly remark "....like an omolette".]--boyd
  10. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2005 7:21pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For the record, driving your elbows into the thighs so they open from pain and not leverage is a bitch technique.

    And Saulo Ribeiro agrees with me:

    http://www.groundfighter.com/uploads.../Saulo%206.WMV

    Nyah.
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