View Poll Results: How do you pass the guard?
- 79. You may not vote on this poll
From the knees.
12/21/2004 3:16pm, #11
Because people seem to be thinking I'm making this issue up, here's what brought on this thread:
However, when I [Roy Harris] am forced to uncross someone's ankles, especially those who hold on for dear life, I almost always stand up. It is the best way to uncross someone ankles in my opinion. Yes, it does leave a person open for sweeps, but every technique leaves you open for something! So stand up and uncross those ankles!
What would a Mario [Sperry] tape set be with out a bold statement or two. For example, Mario states that you should never pass the guard standing up. That's news to me. All the best passes seem to be standing. It is probably still true unless you are fighting someone of Mario's caliber or someone that has practiced the moves on Master Series 1 and 2.
My instructor, also a BJJ black belt, has discussed passing standing or from knees, and he said he prefers standing. He feels it is worth defending sweeps to also prevent more submissions. It seemed to me that a decent amount of thought goes into how high level grapplers choose to stand or not.
I also have a BJJ book in my hands that contains seperate chapters for these two types of passes, with full descriptions of the pros and cons (I didn't pull those out of my ass) and explains the uses of these two categories of passes, so I think it's a safe bet to say the distinction between passes exists, if just in BJJ.
Obvious, both types have their uses, and training both is important. I'm not even arguing that one is better than another, because they both have their own benefits. I apologize if you feel pidgeon-holed by the poll questions and options, but I felt like narrowing it down with extreme prejudice. You can always not vote and reply with "Both", "Neither" and "UR STOOPID".
But I can honestly say (1) I do standing passes the majority of the time and (2) I have more success with standing passes. The opposite is true for people in my very school, who prefer high-pressure passes from the knees. That's why I started this thread: I thought it'd be interesting to see what people do.
You might honestly have never thought about this, nor cared, or whatever. That's fine too. Have a cookie.
Last edited by Aesopian; 12/21/2004 3:24pm at .
12/21/2004 3:22pm, #12
Cookies . . . puppies . . . You're just like ole St. Nick himself. Except for the creeping into people's houses part.
12/21/2004 4:06pm, #13
- Join Date
- Feb 2004
I'm 5'11 and about 155 pounds give or take a bit.
In our school passing the guard standing is heavily emphasized as the primary method. I personally prefer it as well.
Being more athletic and a quicker type of guy, passing from my feet gives me the oppurtunity to really explode and use speed/rolls/cartwheels/etc to pass the guard, not just strong arming the person.
It seems like for me, I have the most success passing the guard from my knees when we train with a gi as it gives me more handles and stuff, allowing me to work different pins as I slowly work past their legs.
It is also easier to shoot in on somebody and get the takedown if they are trying to pass your guard and put one of their knees down (or both). Just secure the downed knee, and work into them doing your takedown (works particularlly well with a gi).
So there ya go, some of my thoughts and some rambling.
12/21/2004 5:04pm, #14
I mainly pass from my knees. My limited experience dictates what I do, so I'll give the reasons:
1) Judo ne waza rules: if one person stands up it's a matte (restart), so in ne waza you generally always keep on your knees or down low
2) The style of BJJ I'm being taught comes down from Adriano Lucio (he's our black belt) and he's on the Brazilian Top Team (teammate of Mario Sperry) so the knees seems to be their school of thought
3) We always train in judogi which lends itself to knees
I have learned simple standing passes, but rarely use them for obvious reasons. I pass the closed guard from the knees by baiting the triangle (one arm out) and then stacking and getting both arms out for the pass by heavy stacking -- it works good for me because I'm heavy"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln
Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
12/21/2004 5:08pm, #15
Since I've heard more than a few people say they do it, I'm wondering...
How many of you bait submissions from the guard (e.g. armbars and triangles) and rely on your escapes and sub counters to pass?
12/21/2004 6:24pm, #16Originally Posted by Aesopian
Everyone baits at some point
12/21/2004 6:27pm, #17
For myself, I prefer to pass low, but my knees are off the ground so that my weight is on my opponent's hips. I prefer this method because:
1) It seems to work better in shutting down guys who are really good with their legs and can put their ankles behind their heads
2) Low passes are better in no-gi because you generally need to grab the guys pants when standing to control his legs.
3) I feel I can put more weight on my opponent when I'm low, and I like to do crushing type passes.
Having said that, if I can't uncross someone's legs from kneeling, I'll stand, uncross the ankles and then drop down again.
12/21/2004 6:46pm, #18
I think baiting people is a dangerous habit to get into. I'd prefer to give the guy nothing (except grief), than run the risk of his favourite attack being better than my escapes.
My method of guard passing is to wait, then get my grips and go straight into my pass where I force the person onto their back. Then they have less options, they're on their back so it's harder for them to move away, my shoulders are controlling their hips and I'm nearly halfway past their legs. I then have some counters to the usual guard defences people put up e.g. pushing my head, turning onto their side to move their hips away, trying to bring a leg over in the "crossover" defence.
12/21/2004 6:57pm, #19
Thanks for the responses Johnny.
My question is probably better stated on "How many of you rely on baited submissions to pass guard?", since some people I have talked to listed this as one of their methods to pass guard. I mean like "How do you pass guard", "If I can't uncross their ankles, I wait for them to attempt an armbar then stack them and pass", "I just give them the start of a triangle and escape it". Yes, these are real answers I have gotten.
I'm not saying this doesn't work, and I would be lying if I said I've never passed guard by escaping submissions, but I've never gone out of my way to bait them. I am of the opinion that you're better off with active guard passes where you create all the opportunities to pass, not just reacting to their attacks and hoping they makes a mistake or you overpower them.
12/21/2004 7:15pm, #20
I know some people who do this too, but no-one above blue belt level. I'll do this sometimes if I'm playing around, but I wouldn't do it against someone my own level or better.
In grappling in general you should be the one pushing the buttons. I'm a bit of a counter-fighter, but I will usually start messing with someone's base or posture etc, then when they react to that I take what I want. But the person is still reacting to my initial move - not me trying to play catch up and counter everything they are doing.