From the knees.
Posted On:12/21/2004 11:47am
I just received my copy of Passing the Guard by Ed Beneville (which is an awesome book that I will be talking about for weeks, much like I did with The Triangle), and it got me thinking about the two main types of passes: from standing and from the knees.
I know from reading around the interweb and talking to people that schools and instructor tend to prefer one to another. For example, I know Roy Harris prefers standing pass, but Mario Sperry hates them and only passes from the knees. Likewise, my instructor loves standing passes, while IzzyDaHedgehog's instructor says never to use them. So you can see, there is a split on the subject, which is why I am taking this poll.
For informative purposes, I've written this little guide entitled...
The Relative Pros and Cons of Passing the Guard from the Knees vs Standing
Passing from the knees
Pros:Keeps you low and tight, making better use of strength and weight.Converses energy.Blocks open guards such as spider and De la Riva.Less vulnerable to sweeps.Less vulnerable to leglocks.Cons:Harder to uncross the ankles.Easier for opponent to reclose guard.More vulnerable to some submissions.Example of passing from the knees [Warning - PDF file]: http://grapplingarts.net/PDF/pg.%202...0300%20dpi.pdf
(That is a sample of the book Passing the Guard which started this whole discussion. Check out more at http://grapplingarts.net/Samples/samples.html)
Standing guard passes
Pros:Uses gravity to your advantage (e.g. uncrossing the ankles).Offers more speed and mobility to build momentum.Allows for more surprise rolling and jumping passes.Less vulnerable to some submissions.Offers more submissions from the guard (e.g leglocks).Cons:Requires more energy to stand.More vulnerable to sweeps.More vulnerable to leglocks.Example of a standing pass: http://bjj.org/techniques/intheguard/guardpass1/
At least that's how I understand them. Feel free to add or subtract from this list.
After filling out the poll, please add a reply to let me know why you prefer one to another. What is your body type, and how does this affect the passes you use?
For example, I'm tall and skinny so I've found standing passes make better uses of my height and mobility, and don't rely on my weight as much.
I'm also wondering, which type does your instructor or school prefer? Do you differ from this?
Posted On:12/21/2004 11:57am
Style: Shi Ja Quan
Don't mean to be a prick, but it doesn depend on who and where you are fighting.
Also your background, not everyone passes the guard ala BJJ.
Posted On:12/21/2004 1:00pm
Then feel free to explain what you do instead.
Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards
Posted On:12/21/2004 1:24pm
Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai
I pass from the knees because my instructor says it's too easy to get swept standing. Aesopian says that it's easier to pass standing when you're tall though, so I'm gonna have to try some standing passes. One thing I've been having problems with is getting the ankles uncrossed from the knees in no-gi, so standing passes are probably the way to go for me.
Last edited by IzzyDaHedgehog; 12/21/2004 1:26pm at .
sudo make me a sandwich!
Posted On:12/21/2004 1:31pm
Assuming you take BJJ (as is an assumption I made this thread with, since that's just how biased I am), answer with regards to how you normally spar. I imagine this is in a gi with no striking.
If you only do no-gi/submission wrestling, answer according how you spar in class.
If you do judo, answer with regards to your newaza.
If you do MMA, Shooto or NHB, feel free to answer too.
If you take Hapkido, Japanese jiu-jitsu, Krav Maga, wing chun, kung fu, chin na, tai chi, dim-mak or anything that has a grappling system that involves some sort of concept of a "guard" that would need to be "passed", you can leave your mark too.
If you want to bring up the "OMG what about the street?" argument, you can do that too.
If you don't do any of these and you're feeling really offended that I left you out and neglected to take into account your special needs and wants, here's a picture of some puppies to ease your mental anguish:
Last edited by Aesopian; 12/21/2004 2:01pm at .
Posted On:12/21/2004 1:35pm
Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ
You're going to have to take my response in the context of what I train, but I find standing to be easy and natural; it certainly doesn't affect my endurance. I like seeing what I can do with my opponent's legs from a standing position, and find that a downward angle is a big help for bringing my knee to the inside in order to pass. Since part of the game I'm [working on] developing is largely upright, it's also good for me to practice disengaging from the ground whenever possible.
Posted On:12/21/2004 2:00pm
Style: Tao Ga
This might sound contradictory, but even though I prefer standing passes, I usually do kneeling passes. I prefer standing because most of what I do now is stand-up, I am not worried about sweeps, and they aren't that hard for me. I end up passing from the knees because it presents me with a better feeling of control of my opponent, and mostly I am trying to make my ground game better so I usually want to stay there after passing, during training.
Host-Personal Defense TV
Posted On:12/21/2004 2:09pm
I usually pass closed guard from the knees and open from standing. That is not a hard and fast rule though. If I know my opponent has a killer open guard game, I may try to slow the pace down with a tight kneeling pass.
The situation really dictates for me. I find that I go with whats open. I break the guard and just "Flow the go"
Posted On:12/21/2004 2:48pm
Style: stand up,clinch,ground
depends on the situation
vale tudo or jits, gi or no gi
i practice both to get a better game.
Posted On:12/21/2004 3:02pm
Style: MMA, No-Gi Grappling
I like from standing
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