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  1. Fatality Dragon is offline

    Reading FD cause cancer

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 12:17pm


     Style: Muay Thai and boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anatomy:

    Ball of foot - Mostly muscles and thick skins.

    Shin - all bone and thin skin.

    Speed/gliding at home experiment:

    Put on a knee high sock or a tight pant.
    Get in water around waist deep.
    Try to kick with your ball of feet under the water nonstopping for 30 min.
    Next day do same thing again and try kick nonstopping with your leg straighten for 30 min.

    Water will resist against angled leg a lot more than the shin.

    Muscle require:

    Using ball of your foot would require a lot more muscles because you will have to bend your feet and raises your toe while you kicks. Which would slow it down some.

    Using shin would just require you to straighten your leg and take less muscles to use while other carry it in air and against the object.

    Hope those help you understand it better.

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."
    I would pick bag work over masturbating, fighting over sex, and KOing someone over having a orgasm!
  2. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 12:46pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Never had any doubt that there is more air resistance for the ball of the foot than for shin kicking. However, if you're not in water is it a significant amount? Maybe but I'm not convinced.

    Even if there is how will that override the other points I made, there is still a much smaller area and a greater relative speed for the ball of the foot.

    Sorry I'm pretty slow with this sort of thing and tend to plod through it step wise.




    **Oh my god! I don't wanna go to THE STREET mommy! All the mean crazy psycho ninjas pick on me and take my lunch money.**
  3. Fatality Dragon is offline

    Reading FD cause cancer

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 1:24pm


     Style: Muay Thai and boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok... then why do you thinks they design airplane, car, and other things to have cerain angle and shape?

    But if you still thinks both are the same, that is fine with me. It won't really make any different in anyhing.

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."
    I would pick bag work over masturbating, fighting over sex, and KOing someone over having a orgasm!
  4. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 1:30pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Noobie-"TKD kick = Tippity tap
    MY kick = Crackity crack"
    where you get the crack from?


    Dochter-if MT kicks spin you all the way around when you miss, would they still be used as much?

    i have seen fights where the guy spins around after missing a kick but most fights retract their kicks after missing


    Ball of foot-i don't really recommend it, my friend blocked own of my dart kicks with his elbow, pain slows a bit

    --

    There are only three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
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  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 1:36pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry Pizdoff Muay Thai kicks do spin you all the way around if you do them correctly. I don't think you've been doing them correctly.

    Go away I'm talking to myself
  6. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 1:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FD,
    You're right, there absolutely is a difference in air resistance. We are however talking about small cross sectional areas moving at lower relative speeds, therefore it seems to me that the air resistance wouldn't reduce force that much. I agree it exists but I can't see it making a huge difference, we're talking about only a small increase in cross section area. It would seem that the higher speed at the farther end of a circle would more than off set this.

    Cars and airplanes are a hell of a lot bigger than my foot (and hopefully yours <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>) so they have a lot more air resistance to deal with.


    PD,
    As I said the complete spin was an exaggeration. It is, from my understanding, about commitment, which all techniques should have regardless of originating style.

    As I said:
    "tkd type kicks that I've seen one of the problems is that the retraction starts before full transfer of force. This results in the infamous "tipy-tap". "

    My real questions are centered around the statements that I made of:
    "There isn't really all that much padding on the ball of the foot and so in theory a "thai" kick delivered through the ball of the foot would actually cause more damage due to the force being delivered across a smaller surface area. However, I've blocked shin to shin enough to recognize where the perception of increased power comes from. Anyone who can explain that one to me would be appreciated."

    And: "As for the hammer, pipe analogy I'm not sure that completely fits either. It might be more appropriate to ask if I'd rather get hit by a 3 foot steel bat or the oblong lead cylinder affixed perpendicularly at the end of a 3 foot long bat: that would be like a | or a T with only half the branch.

    In this instance I'd say I'd rather get hit by the steel bat (it is just wrong to say something like that <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>). My reasons for this would be that although the lead is less dense and more malleable than the steel bat, the point of impact is on less surface area. Additionally the foot/lead cylinder is traveling faster than a point midway down the shin/bat due to having to travel along a larger radius. So although the lead sledgehammer (essentially what I'm picturing) has a less dense striking tool it will still impart more power at impact."

    Given: MT kicks are far more powerful than the stereotypical tkd kick.

    Given: The shin is a much denser tool to attack with.

    My Assumption: Air resistance differences between a kick with the foot in a neutral position and in a kicking position are negligible.

    Question: Since a reduction in area of contact increases pressure applied wouldn't a "thai" kick delivered through the smaller surface area of the ball of the foot cause more damage? What would be the analytical reasons for this to not be true? Would the greater speed of the foot traveling around the greater radius as well as the smaller surface area not offset the difference in tool density?





    **Oh my god! I don't wanna go to THE STREET mommy! All the mean crazy psycho ninjas pick on me and take my lunch money.**
  7. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 1:56pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    er, sure, i don't do muay thai and have not recieved instruction about it


    http://www.fightauthority.com/index.php4?vidid=66&vidTypeId=4&locationID =1


    watch that, i know some kicks are blocked and hit but i don't think anyone spins around after missing, that would just set you up for an attack


    --

    There are only three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
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  8. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 2:02pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well, Dochter, since you posted before i read it...


    Omega-"PD, As I said the complete spin was an exaggeration. It is, from my understanding, about commitment, which all techniques should have regardless of originating style. "

    Well omega i do hope you think about or at least try to understand what you are talking about.

    Who the **** would practice a kick that spins you all the way around after you miss? Thanks Omega for your misguided information.

    --

    There are only three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
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  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 2:10pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know exactly what I'm talking about. Where did somebody throw a full muay thai kick in that video? I saw a cut kick that missed.

    I said "Sorry Pizdoff Muay Thai kicks do spin you all the way around if you do them correctly" with the emphasis on correctly. You can see it happen all the time. When you train you spin. The practicality of it is that its natural to avoid the spin. A full Muay thai kick will leave you vunerable if done correctly. Everything else is just a roundhouse kick.

    Remember just because it's thrown by a Muay thai fighter doesn't make it the Muay Thai kick I'm referring to.

    <<Done Muay Thai, Teaches Muay Thai, sits with lots of Pro fighters that do Muay Thai (big tongue sticking back at you) nah.

    Go away I'm talking to myself
  10. PizDoff is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 2:13pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    and you train in Muay Thai?

    physically, i find it easier to spin around then the slow my leg and retract it, but i use my arms mainly, so my lower body theory is less thought out


    if you happen to find any good links or books let me know, i plan to start looking for a Muay Thai school later on this year

    --

    There are only three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
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