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  1. Dochter is offline

    Neutral, or nearly so

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 9:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    PD, yeah but how does the heel come into play on a roundhouse? I can't even imagine getting my foot in that position.




    **Oh my god! I don't wanna go to THE STREET mommy! All the mean crazy psycho ninjas pick on me and take my lunch money.**
  2. CrimsonTiger is offline
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    RAAAAAAR! Fear the Tiger!

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 9:57pm

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think they're talking about a spinning wheel kick, Doc.

    (Ura Mawashi Geri or Mawate Ura Mawashi Geri in Japanese...)

    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "You kicked me in the HEAD! You NEVER throw kicks! How'd you do that? Wires?!" - Sempai Phil (my last sparring partner)
    Regards,
    CrimsonTiger

    "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
    One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
    Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine
  3. Noobie is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 10:50pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TKD kick = Tippity tap
    MY kick = Crackity crack
  4. gong sau is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    2/10/2003 11:00pm

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     Style: Brazillian Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    LOL
    -----------------------------------------------------
    "The difference between us, and other martial arts websites you might be looking for, is that we're not going to feed you, well, bullshit about martial arts."
    -Phrost
  5. Fatality Dragon is offline

    Reading FD cause cancer

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 2:03am


     Style: Muay Thai and boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I mean kicking by pushing with heel hard. I would NEVER do any move that require spinning backward.

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."
    I would pick bag work over masturbating, fighting over sex, and KOing someone over having a orgasm!
  6. Rashomon is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 2:13am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I remember when I saw my first MT kicks. It was when I was looking for a MA school. When the instructor and students kicked the thai pads, it sounded like thunder claps. None of that tipy-tap TKD stuff. That's when I knew I was in the right place. :)

    I was *extremely* impressed by the amount of power the MT kick could generate. As other said before, I think the difference comes from the attacking tool (hard shin vs fragile instep) and the hip turn. Also, waiste-level kicks have more power than the high kicks, in general, so that helps the MT kicks, especially those to the legs.



    Rashomon
  7. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 3:17am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I started a similar thread quite awhile ago and got pretty much the same answers. From this (and no I haven't seen one carried out, just some web footage) my take on it is that it is mainly a matter of commitment that differentiates a MT kick from those of other styles.

    By commitment I mean that what has been reported is that on a MT type kick the motion is carried fully out. The report made to me is that if you didn't hit anything you'd essentially spin all the way around (this might be a bit of an exaggeration but it shows the emphasis on commitment).

    This is in contrast to other styles which sacrifice some power for the ability to pull back from the technique after full transfer of force (that might not be the exact physics explanation but you get the idea). The ability to retract along the plane you attacked on has some martial benefit but it may mainly be a matter of personal benefit. From tkd type kicks that I've seen one of the problems is that the retraction starts before full transfer of force. This results in the infamous "tipy-tap". TKD type kicks I've seen did involve a hip turn so this may not be the whole story.

    As far as the use of shins goes I haven't completely wrapped my mind around that. There isn't really all that much padding on the ball of the foot and so in theory a "thai" kick delivered through the ball of the foot would actually cause more damage due to the force being delivered across a smaller surface area. However, I've blocked shin to shin enough to recognize where the perception of increased power comes from. Anyone who can explain that one to me would be appreciated.

    For those training in MT please let me know if any of these assertions are off base.

    Thanks.





    **Oh my god! I don't wanna go to THE STREET mommy! All the mean crazy psycho ninjas pick on me and take my lunch money.**
  8. Fatality Dragon is offline

    Reading FD cause cancer

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 6:30am


     Style: Muay Thai and boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well Dochter, if you have to choose between a wood hammer with a 3 inches handle or a steel bat as a weapons. Which one would you pick?

    Ball of foot aren't as strong or hard as shin. Also it don't glide throug air as easily as shin do.

    Shin is basically a bone that is cover with skin. If well conditioned, it will become point at the corner similar to Ax. It also glide through the air much faster and easier than having feet bend to kick with the ball.

    So basically shin is more useful to kick with than ball of the foot. Especially it reduce the risk of breaking any toes while kicking.

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."
    I would pick bag work over masturbating, fighting over sex, and KOing someone over having a orgasm!
  9. Dochter is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 11:35am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'll go along with the reduced risk of toe breakage (that'd by my prime motivation). I'm not sure I'm buying the gliding through air part though, its still the same leg, the foot angle is just a little different (right?). I don't know about most people, but I doubt I create much lift or drag kicking (of course if that's the case maybe 540 spinning kicks are meant to get you airborne, as said elsewhere, WHEEE!).

    As for the hammer, pipe analogy I'm not sure that completely fits either. It might be more appropriate to ask if I'd rather get hit by a 3 foot steel bat or the oblong lead cylinder affixed perpendicularly at the end of a 3 foot long bat: that would be like a | or a T with only half the branch.

    In this instance I'd say I'd rather get hit by the steel bat (it is just wrong to say something like that<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>). My reasons for this would be that although the lead is less dense and more malleable than the steel bat, the point of impact is on less surface area. Additionally the foot/lead cylinder is traveling faster than a point midway down the shin/bat due to having to travel along a larger radius. So although the lead sledgehammer (essentially what I'm picturing) has a less dense striking tool it will still impart more power at impact.

    This is just what I can figure out logically. Its been about 7 years since I had college physics so a lot of this might be flawed (and yes I know power and force are being misused).

    I don't know the answer and as said I block shin to shin a lot and know the resulting impact. I'm just trying to figure it out so anyone with more points please help out. My way of answering questions is to step through things like above, so I hope thatís not too tedious for all of you.







    **Oh my god! I don't wanna go to THE STREET mommy! All the mean crazy psycho ninjas pick on me and take my lunch money.**
  10. Fatality Dragon is offline

    Reading FD cause cancer

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    Posted On:
    2/11/2003 12:17pm


     Style: Muay Thai and boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anatomy:

    Ball of foot - Mostly muscles and thick skins.

    Shin - all bone and thin skin.

    Speed/gliding at home experiment:

    Put on a knee high sock or a tight pant.
    Get in water around waist deep.
    Try to kick with your ball of feet under the water nonstopping for 30 min.
    Next day do same thing again and try kick nonstopping with your leg straighten for 30 min.

    Water will resist against angled leg a lot more than the shin.

    Muscle require:

    Using ball of your foot would require a lot more muscles because you will have to bend your feet and raises your toe while you kicks. Which would slow it down some.

    Using shin would just require you to straighten your leg and take less muscles to use while other carry it in air and against the object.

    Hope those help you understand it better.

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."
    I would pick bag work over masturbating, fighting over sex, and KOing someone over having a orgasm!
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