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  1. WMACPR is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/09/2008 11:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The home page http://www.wtf.org/site/about_wtf/intro.htm states only 188 nations listed in the governing body which is the body that issues/regulates/recognises the kukkiwon qualification.


    Yes because they do not include the WTF governing bodies that are members but do not issue Kukkiwon certificates like Spain and Mexico ( I beleave) for examples. This governing bodies are members but they issue their owns certifcates that are not the kukkiwon, if the student wants them have to requested in additon to the one that they are receiving, a don't know what are the other countries that do not issue the Kukkiwon certificate and are WTF members but I know about Spasin and Mexico for example.

    Until I know there are 200 nations tru their International Olympic Committees register with the rights to the WTF. That a particular member body can stay in probatory and not listed like the case of the Republic Dominican that they are in probatory for an excandal of corruption with the goverment of the Republic thats could happen. The WTF body in Republic Dominican mix the organization with the Politics people and let use it for Politics thinks, that could happen. But I do not know you have to ask these inquiries to the WTF Administration and let see if they could answer you.
    Last edited by WMACPR; 1/09/2008 11:43pm at .
  2. Rooster is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 1:09am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think any of us care what committies exist in what nations. THE MAIN ISSUE IS THAT YOU ARE SELLING RANKS/BELTS TO ANYONE WILLING TO PAY AND IT IS DESPICABLE. UNIVERSITIES EDUCATE THEIR PEOPLE AND THEN GIVE THEM THEIR RANKS.... JUST LIKE MA SCHOOLS.

    Again, no one gives a crap about anything else regarding your foundation. The issue is that you are selling ranks. The issue is that you are selling ranks. The issue is that you are selling ranks. The issue is that you are selling ranks. The issue is that you are selling ranks. The issue is that you are selling ranks.
  3. ADM is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 4:29am


     Style: Kyokushin Karate / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rooster what are you trying to say here?
  4. Greyfox is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 5:56am


     Style: Wing Chun; Modern Wushu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bran Lydster
    I am confused about this ...''Good for a Military man because he can continue with his training of rank advance in any of those 200 nations, even at war''

    ....as....

    The home page http://www.wtf.org/site/about_wtf/intro.htm states only 188 nations listed in the governing body which is the body that issues/regulates/recognises the kukkiwon qualification.

    And this ''China request that Kung Fu be a demostrative Sport in the World Olympic Games of 2008 in China''....

    Please find here a link http://en.beijing2008.cn/cptvenues/schedule/ that does not mention kung fu at all....
    'Kung fu', or rather wushu, will be present as a demonstration sport and in an associated competition running alongside the Olympic games.

    See http://en.beijing2008.cn/03/05/article212050503.shtml
  5. WMACPR is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 9:13am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    This is selling example

    The following is an example of selling certificates, this examples are the ones that you are after them. No from schools that have more than 30 years founded. In this ebays school you will find no records of them. No partipations in tournaments and no news of any matter or achievements that they have accomplish. Any McDojo will not have the hability to be for life more than 30 years if the people do not beleave that they are good MA Schools. Here in Michigan we have many schools of MA and we compete agains all. If the people think that we are not soo good, they will go to another school already during this 30 years and will be closing the school already.


    The example of the link with the selling ranks is:
    http://search.ebay.com/search/search...s2=32828&lsot2=
    Last edited by WMACPR; 1/10/2008 9:15am at .
  6. CrackFox is offline
    CrackFox's Avatar

    You have to work the look.

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 9:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ebay
    Please email your art, rank, the date of your most recent rank examination and instructor's name.
    How is this different from your organisation?
  7. Kung-Fu Joe is offline
    Kung-Fu Joe's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 9:27am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WMACPR
    The following is an example of selling certificates, this examples are the ones that you are after them. No from schools that have more than 30 years founded. In this ebays school you will find no records of them. No partipations in tournaments and no news of any matter or achievements that they have accomplish. Any McDojo will not have the hability to be for life more than 30 years if the people do not beleave that they are good MA Schools. Here in Michigan we have many schools of MA and we compete agains all. If the people think that we are not soo good, they will go to another school already during this 30 years and will be closing the school already.
    I'm sorry-- I'm not too sure what you're getting at. Are you saying that the sole fact that you've sold illegitimate rankings for 30 years abdicates you from the inherent immorality of the act? Or are you attempting to say that the fact that you've been around for 30 years is what lends legitimacy to your rankings?

    Either way, it's a pretty ludicrous presumption. Age has absolutely nothing to do with either legitimacy or morality.


    It's also interesting that you feel the tournament participation of your 'faculty' somehow validates the doling out of illegitimate rankings. Even if you attend and win a thousand tournaments, how does that-- in any way-- justify giving rank to a person who has not adequately demonstrated the techniques, knowledge, and skill necessary to earn that rank?


    --Joe
  8. MJ Dougherty is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 9:32am


     Style: Ju-Jitsu, Self-Defence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, so people do indeed buy from you. Given that you advertise that you sell certificates, and the purpose of advertising is to attract buyers, the fact that buyers come is not proof that your certificates are good. It simply proves that the advertising you use works.

    The questions that remain unanswered are:


    1. What checks do you do to prove that the person requesting a certificate actually deserves it?

    2. Why are your certificates worth obtaining, since you seem to have stated that you basically award certification for things people already have?


    I have black belts in two flavours of Ju-Jitsu (not BJJ), and as a general rule other JJ stylists then to just take them (plus the fact that I can perform JJ to a decent standard without falling over... much) at face value. Some JJ prganisations would accept me at black belt level on the strength of these, others would not. Is it really likely that those that would not, would change their minds if I had a certfiicate bought from you?

    'I have this First Dan certificate from a guy you've never heard of, who saw me do stuff and passed me on the grade.'

    'Not good enough'

    'Aha! But I also have this other First Dan certifcate for the same thing, which I bought from some guy who I'd never met, who never saw me do a thing. But I wrote 1000 words and about martial arts and stuff'

    'Oh, that's different then...'

    Sorry, I don't buy this.
  9. MJ Dougherty is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 9:39am


     Style: Ju-Jitsu, Self-Defence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I also find this statement odd;

    "Any McDojo will not have the hability to be for life more than 30 years if the people do not beleave that they are good MA Schools. "

    Well, not so much odd as WRONG!

    Y'see, what keeps a class open is not being a good martial arts school. It's having people train there, enough that the class can cover its costs or pay for the instructor's lifestyle or whatever.

    Money keeps a school open. Now mine only needs a handful of people becuase all we need do is pay for the room. No profits leave the class. A money-making class needs to make more, but that's all it needs to do. So long as people come to the class and pay their dues, the class remains viable.

    Quality MA is not always what brings people in. Good marketing, dubious retention methods and outright cultishness can all keep people in the class paying their dues and ensure longevity of a class. None of those things makes a class good.


    Therefore, longevity does not equal validity. QED.
  10. WMACPR is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/10/2008 9:46am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If we were interested in selling, why we do not do the selling. In other words why I do not use this elements like ebay or amazon and do my selling, after all it will be just a selling, why I do not try to convice you to join us or make you an offer to you right now. It will be just a selling or not.

    In other words, if I will be interested in selling why not do it directly and impact the region making a competence of price. If I will be interested in selling I will lower the prices to compete for a market and I will be lowering the prices so many people from many countries of the world that can not affort it can do it...like in this ebay link http://search.ebay.com/search/search...ates&category0=.

    If you know the principle of marketing you lower the prices to increase the demand of the product, it is ilogical to compete for a market increasing prices when a competence are lowering theirs- I told this because in the selling the goal is sell, like you see in this ebay example clearly. We do a clear verification of all individuals that we count with us and we do not sell us, they select us because they beleave in us and they choose us.

    Pardon my gramatic, I am learning this language... I am not a english teacher.
    Last edited by WMACPR; 1/10/2008 9:48am at .

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