Considering the writing style it looks like WMACPR wrote thw wiki article. Nice to see that he also put the part about buying certification in there.
Originally Posted by sochin101
Hmm, I waded through the big paragraph of doom and I found this:
"Remember that he is already tested in his organization. We just are validating what he is say."
Now I'm very puzzled. Does this mean that World MA College only issues grades that someone can already prove he has (if so, why?).
Does it imply that WMAC claims to be some kind of necessary validation for exisiting grades? That would be a rather grandiose claim, to say the least. I mean, yes, you did indeed obtain a grade from your ogranisation head but it has to be validated by writing an essay and paying money to people you've never met... hmm.
As to 1000 words... 1000 words is VERY easy to fill. Anyone can write 1000 words if they put their mind to it. Some of them may even make sense. But supposing I do write the requisite essay on my philosophy, my instructors and whatnot. In what way does this prove I can do what i say I can? Is it enough to satisfy someone that I'm fit to teach?
It's easier to write 1000 words than it is to earn a real black belt in a respectable MA.
Yes this is true but is just part of a process that not conclude there. You have to present your validates certificates for all your ranks with their numbers, dates taken, Association and will contact them for recomendations about you. If they talk bad about you, you will not make it. If they do not know you, you will not make it.
Now talking about respect, do I offend you here. Why if you are from a respectable MA talk about other without respect. Do you have the International experience position in a MA Organization to talk or you just have the Dojo or Dojang experience of administration. Are you have a Master Level Experience to talk or you just are talking about what you see in your Dojo or Dojang. If you came from a respectable MA, Can you tell me your organization and how long they have been in the community. Please don't came with the history of MA.
This is our linage:
First True Teacher of Okinawan Karate
TODE SAKUGAWA (1733-1815)
Founder of Shorin-Ryu Okinawan Karate
SOKO MATSUMURA (1797-1889)
ANKO ITOSU became a great practitioner and teacher of Okinawan Shorin Ryu Karate and developed the five Pinan Katas
Knowns in Korean Martial Arts ( Tang Soo Do & Old Taekwondo ) like Pyang's Hyung
GICHIN FUNAKOSHI Founder of Shotokan Karate
He practice Shorin-Ryu and Shorei-Ryu Okinawan Karate, also Kendo
Grand Master Sang Sup Chun was student of
Shotokan Karate-Do under
GICHIN FUNAKOSHI at Takushoku University
from 1940 - 1947
Most of the GM of Taekwondo were influence and were students of GM GICHIN FUNAKOSHI
Choson Yun Moo Kwan (1946)
Founder Grand Master SANG SUP CHUN
Died on 1947 - Kidnaped during Korean War
Tae Kwon Do Ji Do Kwan (1946)
Founder: Grand Master CHONG WOO LEE ( 1946 )
Change the original style name from
Choson Yun Moo Kwan to the new name of Ji Do Kwan
Tae Kwon Do Han Moo Kwan (1954)
Founder: Grand Master KYO YOON LEE ( 1954 )
Who was the #6 Ji Do Kwan Grand Master Register & Certified by Ji Do Kwan in Korea
If you are talking about us bad, you are talking about all of them bad also because they are ours past teachers and we honor them.
Which brings me all the way back to this:
If I issue a coaching certificate or a grade that's normally seen as instructor level, then there's a good chance that it will be used for that. This means that *I* am responsible for that person's fitness to teach. So what happens if they're actually not able to teach to the requisite level or if they're a scam merchant?
Well, it depends:
1. They teach katas and stuff and it's rubbish. This won't do much harm, just waste time and effort. And money, if they charge their students for training.
2. They teach competitive MMA, Muay Thai, Kickboxing or whatnot. Their students get unnecessarily hammered and suffer accordingly. Some humiliation too. Oh, and the monry thing again. If I pay you to teach me to fight and you teach me badly, I'm entitled to wonder if I'm getting what was paid for,
3. They teach self-defence and their students only find out that it doesn't work when someone is stamping on their face. People do occasionally get killed because what they thought would work, won't. And who's responsible for that? Their instructor of course, and the person who said their instructor was fit to teach. Oh, and I bet they paid for the training.
At the very least, I see a risk of being implicated in what amounts to fraud. If someone is issued a grade that suggests he's entitled to charge money for teaching something he really can't, he's taking money from people under false pretences.
Leaving aside other considerations, like the possibility that the instrctor might send people out into the world thinking rising block/reverse punch combinations trained non-contact will win barfights and MMA matches, there's the simple money question....
How do you assure yourself that the people buying these grades are fit to perform at the indicated grade? Is your assurance procedure sufficiently robust that it would stand up to an attempt to implicate you in legal action against a fraudulent instructor holding one of your grades, should that hypothetically occur?
I know I'd be very sure I had something very solid in place before I took a risk like that, so I'm pretty sure WMAC has too. Question is, what is it?
So, again, the question becomes: If you require the person to prove that they already hold that rank, then what good is your certification? What purpose does it serve?
Originally Posted by WMACPR
I'm not sure I buy the 'honour my lineage' argument. Y'see, I taught a guy who was okay at the time but later on began to behave in a manner I didn't like. Mistreating women, abusing junior grades and the like. He deserves speaking ill of and I have no problem with that. It does not insult me or my teachers to say that this person's conduct was unacceptable. Indeed, I'd rather hear that he was a bad 'un from an outsider than find they'd been taken in by his Samurai Master persona.
If you want to play the lineage game, I have both Bruce Lee and Kenshiro Abbe* in mine. That is to say, I have trained multiple times a week for years on end with people directly descended (in terms of instructorship) from these two rather famous martial artists. All that means is that I can do some stuff these guys used to teach; whether I'm good or bad as a martial artist or an instructor is down to me, not them.
And if you talk bad about me, that's where it stops. Insulting me does not demean the people who taught my teachers' instructors or anything....
* But I've never been involved with Aikido. Been nearby when it was happening, but not involved.
"So, again, the question becomes: If you require the person to prove that they already hold that rank, then what good is your certification? What purpose does it serve?"
Uh, yeah. THAT's what I spent half a page trying to say.
Actually it is 25 according to this lists.
Originally Posted by WMACPR
People will compete anywhere to bump up their national ranking points.
Also, Do you beleave that any of the invited will go to our tournament if we have a bad reputation, I don't think so... Neitheir if we offer them money. They will not take that chance! They came because they beleave in what we are.
For example, in my region I am envolve with other locals MA organizations and tournaments. We go to Kyokushinkay Full Contact, to Kick Boxing, to Karate and Kung Fu tournaments and to Olimpic Style Tournaments. The student determine the risk he want to take and in base of that I proceed to train him. I have participate, couching and Refeere in all this tournaments, for almost 20 years I have seen them doing their forms and I have jugde them like referee in tournaments. So if the person says that he is from that style or this style I test it requesting him to show any form or perform any movements of all that I have seen in those years.
If he saids that he is this rank I will know it because I know their instructors and reputations. I belong also to the MA organization in my region that have like 500 schools affiliated from differents styles and we share all in harmony and fight between us with respect to the students, Instructors and public.
Now somebody was asking about responsability and like Bruce Lee say in the movie Enter the Dragon "We can teach you how to swim in the shore but you don't now if you can realy do it until you are in the water".
Well I can teach you in the school how to reach and defend and you can performace all that with a perfection because you know that you are in a envoyroment controlled by an Instructor. But is not until you face the true that you don't know if you can really do it, because in the true in not an exam if your life.
In the military they teach you how to kill, how to shoot, but is not until you go to war that you now if you really learn what they teach you. The war is the reality test for these soulders and some of them have die with honor. Some of them have faill the test so even the Army or Marine can not guarantee even if they train you that you will not die in the real test, even if they have graduated you like a Special Forces, Ranger, etc... They all are humans and humans commit errors, the errors in the war could cost your life or the life or your bodies.
So I can teach you all what you need to know, but you still be human. I can not guarantee you the sucess in the street because that will be your real test, you have to walk it alone and it is probably that you have just one chance to past it.
Some will past, some will not. Some will life maybe without know it, some of my student practice my teachings in real life daily because they are Police Officers and Military Mens.
But of the Army or Marine can not guarantee you the results of their teaching during the war. Who I am to tell you that you will success it.
They are many factors like the nerves, speeds, if the other person make you a fake before hit you and your react time for it. How many people can attack you and how is your determinatin and resistant during the attack, your respiration, your cardio,, you named....
These are factors that we try that you experimented and dominated during a test and thats why take long to be a black belt. Because take time to have the madurity for this.
And how exactly do you tell from 1000 words that someone has the requisite characterisitcs for the grades you award?
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