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  1. matzahbal is offline
    matzahbal's Avatar

    Fig Newtons are fruit and cake, suckah.

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2003 1:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Buffalo Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote]Oh...of course. A business trying to get outside capitol to expand and making sure the teaching staff knows how to teach well, maintain a standard curriculum and effectively run a business is certainly a bad thing<rolls eyes>[quote]

    And how do you get outside capital? Investors. And what do Investors want? More money back than they put up. How do you do that? By bringing in more students.

    Yeah, I already here you griping "Well what if the studios rent goes up, or the intructor has a child, etc" Well those a different situations than blatently trying to get investors to put money down to open schools for the org to make money off of franchising fees and what not.

    [quote]On the other hand when you've got students who you've been instructing for many years who want to start teaching on their own they probably should go through some sort of internal certification.[quote]

    I totally agree there should be some kind if internship/apprenticeship that the instructor has to feel that the student is up to. Not have some made up college/acadamy with diplomas that don't mean crap in the real world that the student paid for with their money only to still run into a chance that they won't get a school of their own.

    "But some apes they gotta go, so we kill the ones we don't know" - 'Ape shall never kill Ape' by The Vandals
    Apu: "Oh! You have just been Apu'd!"
  2. Balloonknot is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2003 2:05pm


     Style: lame

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Total MCDOJO!!! No doubt about it. Look carefully, all the signs are there!
  3. elipson is offline
    elipson's Avatar

    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2003 4:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If they have good instruction and teach stuff that works, then I dont think its a mcdojo.
    But since I dont know, I cant really say anything about the instruction.

    "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
    -Ghandi
  4. Kempoist is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2003 4:22pm


     Style: Kempo, Catch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >>[quote]Oh...of course. A business trying to get outside capitol to expand and making sure the teaching staff knows how to teach well, maintain a standard curriculum and effectively run a business is certainly a bad thing<rolls eyes>[quote]

    >>And how do you get outside capital? Investors.

    That is the point I was making.

    >> And what do Investors want? More money back than they put up.

    Ummm...yes...that is how it works. Wow...so far we agree.

    >>How do you do that? By bringing in more students.

    Again...that is how it works. But you say it like it's a bad thing when a school grows.

    >>Yeah, I already here you griping "Well what if the studios rent goes up, or the intructor has a child, etc"

    What the hell does that have to do with anything. What you're talking about is called operation expenses and as the school grows those costs are covered.


    >>Well those a different situations than blatently trying to get investors to put money down to open schools for the org to make money off of franchising fees and what not.

    I must be missing your arguement. Part of what an investor gets (regardless of the business...be it MA, Fast food, an auto shop...whatever) with thier investment is called licensing rights. The parent company sells those rights to the investor so the franchise can make money and grow. If the product is good and the marketing done well the the franchise grows and the investor makes money, if not...then the investor encats an exit strategy (usually selling back their frachise to the parent comapany), or the business closes. It's econimcs 101. Not some secret hidden conspiracy.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2003 4:45pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kempoist;
    I think what you're getting irritated at is the fact that these guys do things that you feel are okay. Others don't think so.

    As a counter point to what you're saying. If outside investors invest in a school but they don't understand the nature of what you are doing then you are forced to change the nature of your product. Happens all the time in business. They have an instructors school. What are they really teaching them there? Running a business, teaching martial arts, or making sure the techniques they learned are consistant to everybody.

    You are saying if the product and marketing are good then the business grows, but we know that this is not exactly true. Take the ATA for example. Excellent marketing can you say excellent product? Of course you can't. Marketing and product quality do not go hand in hand.

    Is there anything wrong with an instructors school? Technically no. If the school is doing well who cares. People talk crap about Mcdonalds all the time. I don't see it losing revenues because there's always something else it markets itself as. So if a school becomes more interested in the money side than the product side does that make it a Mcdojo? Answer;yes.

    Why should the school care if it is labled as such then? Sort of turn the negative into the positive. Who's making all the money.

    There's this school here where the instructor openly admits he's gone down the Mcdojo route. He still has his own little group though where he can teach his serious stuff. Hearing him talk, he's half martial artist(fighter)/entrepenuer (sp).

    anyway that's my 7 cents

    Go away I'm talking to myself
  6. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2003 4:53pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote]And why is that you foolish ball of soup? Did you try instructor college and FLUNK out? You are a fool![quote/]

    Welcome back. Don't you think you try to change your MO to make yourself less conspicuous? (did I spell that correctly?)

    Anyway guys I think these guys, if not a Mcdojo now, will be turning into one. This is not saying that they suck or anything but You've got to go with what works. If they get the students in and manage to stay open and make a profit is one thing. Are they lying to there students and misrepresenting anything though? I don't see anything that says that. So what if they have watered down products.

    You should see how many talent agencies that are out there. They know you don't have any talent but they'll take your money anyway and make you feel somewhat important. Once in a while they'll actually find someone they can mold and become famous.

    Go away I'm talking to myself
  7. matzahbal is offline
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    Fig Newtons are fruit and cake, suckah.

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    839

    Posted On:
    2/13/2003 4:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Buffalo Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kempoist, my point is what Omega just eloquently stated. I just need to make my point more direct like he does ;)

    "But some apes they gotta go, so we kill the ones we don't know" - 'Ape shall never kill Ape' by The Vandals
    Apu: "Oh! You have just been Apu'd!"
  8. Kempoist is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/13/2003 5:05pm


     Style: Kempo, Catch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    >>Kempoist;
    I think what you're getting irritated at is the fact that these guys do things that you feel are okay. Others don't think so.

    More an irrataion of people who talk out of their ass without know the facts. You, on the otherhand seem pretty well spoken...a refreshing change around here.

    >>As a counter point to what you're saying. If outside investors invest in a school but they don't understand the nature of what you are doing then you are forced to change the nature of your product. Happens all the time in business.

    Not neccessarily. It is the parent companies responsibilty to give the investor all the relative data to the business. The investor also shares equal resposibilty in being knowlegeable of what he is investing in. If you change the nature of the business to appease an investor then you risk violating the investment agreement and if the business fails you get sued big time.

    >>They have an instructors school. What are they really teaching them there? Running a business, teaching martial arts, or making sure the techniques they learned are consistant to everybody.

    If they are an Instructor's school worthy of the name then they are teaching all of the above. Even if all the instructors in training do not get the opportunity to open a school within the comapny they can take that knowlegde and open thier own.

    >>You are saying if the product and marketing are good then the business grows, but we know that this is not exactly true. Take the ATA for example. Excellent marketing can you say excellent product? Of course you can't. Marketing and product quality do not go hand in hand.

    depends on the business I guess. I have great faith in my skill as an instructor as well as my skill aas a businessman. Like many things in life it is a balancing act but with the propr support system, goals and moarl attitude it can be done.

    >>Is there anything wrong with an instructors school? Technically no. If the school is doing well who cares. People talk crap about Mcdonalds all the time. I don't see it losing revenues because there's always something else it markets itself as. So if a school becomes more interested in the money side than the product side does that make it a Mcdojo? Answer;yes.

    Like I said before...it is a balancing act.

    >>Why should the school care if it is labled as such then? Sort of turn the negative into the positive. Who's making all the money.

    When I took over my own school I swore I'd never be the guy I used to laugh at when I was traing in afriends garage because his art was crap and he was in it just for the money. I still sleep well at night beacuse I still ahve my integrity.

    >>There's this school here where the instructor openly admits he's gone down the Mcdojo route. He still has his own little group though where he can teach his serious stuff. Hearing him talk, he's half martial artist(fighter)/entrepenuer (sp).

    I'll have to give this one some thought. But I'll walk away before I put someone on a test because I need to make bank at the end of the month. The money is out there to be made, but not at the expense of a schools/arts integrity. Like I said...balancing act.
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