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  1. slideyfoot is offline
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    Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2004 10:25am

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Iain Abernethy?

    Apologies if there has already been a thread on this guy (didn't see anything specific from a search, apart from brief mentions by Kensai and noodles), but was wondering what the general opinion is on Iain Abernethy?

    Here's an excerpt from one of his articles:

    Quote Originally Posted by Abernethy
    In a mixed martial arts tournament (such as the Ultimate Fighting Championship) it is quite common to see contestants opt for the fight to go to the ground. This is a sound strategy if the contestant knows that they possess superior ground fighting skills to their opponent. In today's society real fights are rarely one on one for any length of time and hence opting for a ground fight is a sure way to get 'a good kicking' from your assailant's colleagues (or anyone else who fancies a 'free shot'). In the UFC, techniques such as biting, crushing the testicles, gouging the eyes etc. are banned. And yet these are the norm (and a highly effective 'norm') in a self-defence situation. Possibly the most significant difference between sport ground fighting and real ground fighting is the 'intent' behind the fight. In a sporting contest your aim is to win the tournament. In a real fight your aim is to assure your safety. In my dojo, the ground fighting practice revolves around the regaining of an upright position so that student can flee. In a competition match the strategy may well be: A, Take the fight to the floor. B, Keep the fight on the floor. C, Weaken and tire the opponent. D, Get the opponent to submit using the techniques allowed in the rules. In a real fight (and hence the method used in the katas) the strategy would be: A, Avoid going to the floor at all costs. B, If the fight does go to the floor, regain your feet as quickly as possible. C, If getting up is not immediately possible, then hurt the opponent using simple (probably brutal) techniques. D, Once back to your feet, escape and seek shelter or help.
    Thoughts? Sound advice? TMA blinkers? Forward-thinking karateka?


    Iain Abernethy
  2. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2004 10:27am

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sprawl n' brawl biatch.
  3. Ronin is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2004 10:44am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Shi Ja Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Considering he knows CRAP about ground fighting, his advice about getting back up ASAP, is very good advice.
  4. Kempocos is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2004 1:10pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Slideyfoot what are your thoughts NOOB, if you are going to post a small bit out of the context it was pesented then No I do not have any input. To me he seemed to address the information explaining HIS thoughts what are yours.
    ----------------------------------------
    After reading Jekyll's threads I bring back an old sig.......

    Do you really train or just bore people on message boards and parties talking about it.
  5. Anna Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/06/2004 3:42pm

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     Style: Dancing the Spears

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think he underestimates ground fighting usefullness in a real confrontation. If you're not going to be getting stomped on by overzealos onlookers then I think the ground is a great place to take the fight since most people simply dont know what to do from there. In a situation where going to the ground is less desireable I think his idea of getting back up ASAP is the right one.

    However, I also think that he, like many TMA types, has overlooked that the submissions we do on the ground submit the opponent because something is about to be broken or dislocated.

    Hell, I can think of fewer things more "brutal" then snapping my opponents elbow with an armbar. When doing them as submissions we have a tendency to just slowly apply pressure till the opponent taps. For real, it obviously wouldnt take but an instant to **** someone up pretty good with a BJJ technique. But this guy simply cant look past the sporting "submission" part to see that this **** makes you tap out because it fucking hurts and will **** you up if you dont.
  6. fernando is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/06/2004 4:13pm


     Style: stand up,clinch,ground

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wasnt this addressed in 1993?
  7. slideyfoot is offline
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    Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2004 5:19pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Slideyfoot what are your thoughts NOOB, if you are going to post a small bit out of the context it was pesented then No I do not have any input. To me he seemed to address the information explaining HIS thoughts what are yours.
    Reason I post on this forum - which I rarely do - is to draw upon the opinions of others here, as there tend to be numerous well-informed individuals, due to the way in which people who make unsubstantiated claims are soon flamed off Bullshido. I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as the people on here, so I prefer to lurk and learn, with occasional questions I'd like thoughts on, rather than offer up a half-baked opinion of my own; I do enough of that over on Cyberkwoon and Tung-Fu.

    If you want to see the context, here's the link - sorry, thought I'd included that.
  8. Kempocos is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2004 9:12pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    I think he underestimates ground fighting usefullness in a real confrontation. If you're not going to be getting stomped on by overzealos onlookers then I think the ground is a great place to take the fight since most people simply dont know what to do from there. In a situation where going to the ground is less desireable I think his idea of getting back up ASAP is the right one.

    However, I also think that he, like many TMA types, has overlooked that the submissions we do on the ground submit the opponent because something is about to be broken or dislocated.

    Hell, I can think of fewer things more "brutal" then snapping my opponents elbow with an armbar. When doing them as submissions we have a tendency to just slowly apply pressure till the opponent taps. For real, it obviously wouldnt take but an instant to **** someone up pretty good with a BJJ technique. But this guy simply cant look past the sporting "submission" part to see that this **** makes you tap out because it fucking hurts and will **** you up if you dont.

    I think he knows what the te chniques can since they are all TMA techniques. He just is pointing out that there things you can do outside of the ring that he prefers to use.
    ----------------------------------------
    After reading Jekyll's threads I bring back an old sig.......

    Do you really train or just bore people on message boards and parties talking about it.

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