12/01/2004 6:34pm, #31
Ray Nelson said:
There are assholes in every group. And assholes with guns are more dangerous assholes. I'm sorry that you have had to run into one, and it is unfortunate that these people don't have more respect for the rights of others (namely, your right to say no). But because there are no fool-proof methods to keep assholes from getting guns, it doesn't mean that everyone should suffer for it. We're not all assholes. It's like assuming all Cubans love baseball because you met one that did.
I don't agree with your statements:
"I personally feel that if you never served in the military, or some similar form of public service, you shouldn't get to vote..."Things about Jits: How do Armbar 2.0
12/01/2004 6:40pm, #32Originally Posted by PhrostNormally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
12/01/2004 6:52pm, #33Originally Posted by The Wastrel
12/01/2004 6:54pm, #34
You can't expect people to pay taxes and support the gov't without having the right to vote. That's more or less the reason (at least as far as official rhetoric goes) why this country exists in the first place.You say what about my rice?
12/01/2004 7:02pm, #35Originally Posted by DCS
Picture an extended Citizen Service department of the government, somewhat like the military, where one can recieve skill training in a vocational career while applying it for the good of society. Those with lower aptitudes would do more manual labor like road construction, while those with special skills would be given the opportunity to apply them for the benefit of society, for the term of their service. Someone like Stephen Hawking, who's a genius yet not exactly the most able-bodied man, for example, could serve a term in R&D for the benefit of society before going back to public life.
In the model I'm referencing (which could be adapted if necessary), the term of service is a minimum of two years, though subject to extension based on the needs of the government (such as in wartime).
This would solve all sorts of society's ills, be they unemployment through a lack of skills or by providing an option for anyone to have a guaranteed job working for the benefit of everyone else. It's a sort of Socialism, but with the key component being individual service and not ridiculous taxes.
12/01/2004 7:04pm, #36Originally Posted by HAPKO3
The choice bit is key. You chose to give up a few years of your personal life, for the benefit of society, and by doing so earn the right to participate in decisions which affect it, or you chose to live under the protection and service of those who do.
There are no freedoms being abridged here.
12/01/2004 7:09pm, #37
Like germany then, they do compulsary military service I worked with one guy who was bar staff for 9 months at an officers mess. I'm not sure how that contributed to society though.
Originally Posted by Stickx
12/01/2004 7:10pm, #38
Yeah but...Soldiers get paid, Phrost. Can you imagine what politicians would do with all that free labor? Or imagine a scientist or engineer working in this program...does he sacrifice intellectual property rights?Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
12/01/2004 7:11pm, #39Originally Posted by Jekyll
12/01/2004 7:19pm, #40Originally Posted by The Wastrel
This is where the details of the system of checks and balances would have to be weighed, based on a solid constitution.
But by chosing to serve society in order to gain your citizenship, you agree to work for its benefit exclusively for that period of time.
Could you imagine how far we'd be into Space Exploration if such a system were in place and the greatest minds of the country did terms of service specifically to such goals?
As I see it, it doesn't conflict with my Libertarian sensibilities. You're freely exchanging something of yours (your time, skills, and risk), for the right to make decisions which affect society. And in doing so, you're demonstrating an explicit commitment to said society, which is absent in many of those who are given citizenship simply by virtue of being born in a particular place or any other factor that they have no control over.
Make it a choice, subject to risk and sacrifice, and you'll have a lot fewer groups to deal with who try to vote themselves entitlements or benefits without having done ANYTHING to benefit society themselves.