226244 Bullies, 3708 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 101 to 110 of 154
Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 12131415 ... LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Hawkeye is offline
    Hawkeye's Avatar

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southwick, MA
    Posts
    1,281

    Posted On:
    12/02/2004 11:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: Firearms, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wastrel
    Do I really have to walk us all through this?
    Naw, definitly not necessary. I take Mog way too personally as it is and have waaay too many deep seated evil psychotic hatreds toward that country.
    Last edited by Hawkeye; 12/02/2004 11:27pm at .
    "We spoke to them in the only language they understood: the machine gun"
  2. katana is offline

    Capitalist Pig

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,368

    Posted On:
    12/02/2004 11:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, no-gi, boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tkdan28
    No one is forced to serve... it is a choice to be made. Would they have contributed what they did if they had chosen to serve? Don't know because they didn't. This is not conscription, this is choice.
    However nobody has answered an issue I raised earlier which is: People who never served the government have still contributed great things to the society and should be able to vote.


    In a given debate whose side would I most likely chose, your's or Hannibal's? Us and them....
    That's because (in most cases I hope) my arguments are probably more rational than Hannibal's. It's not that you may agree with me because I'm a Bullshido supporter, but rather that I'm expressing opinions that you think are correct.

    All of the citizen's interests will be looked after... just saying if you haven't chosen to actively look after my interests by serving the general common good, instead looking after just your interests by your actions,
    Again people who have never served a day of government service are looking out for the common good by providing jobs, inventing new products, researching diseases, etc. Why is this not as noble of a service?

    why should I trust your opinion about what is best for me?
    Serving the government does not constitute prima facia evidence that a person knows more about deciding public policy than someone who chose another path.
  3. Ray Nelson is offline
    Ray Nelson's Avatar

    Learn to become Invisible

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Posts
    112

    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 11:21am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Because the people who provide jobs and new products do it with a different motive in mind. People don't open up businesses to employ people, they do it for the very selfish ideal of making themselves more money. Behold the power of capitalism. It just so happens that to make more money, one has to have better products than their predecessor, or new products. It's about the dollar.

    Unfortunately, the same could be said about serving the government in such a system as Phrost and Heinlein dictate. There would be people who serve, not to better society, but to enable their own goals, be it the right to procreate, or to vote. And then again, the benefit to society that the service provided would be just a pleasant side effect, like the jobs created in a new McDonalds.

    Respectfully,
    Ray Nelson
  4. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    9,620

    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 11:30am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Nelson
    Because the people who provide jobs and new products do it with a different motive in mind. People don't open up businesses to employ people, they do it for the very selfish ideal of making themselves more money. Behold the power of capitalism. It just so happens that to make more money, one has to have better products than their predecessor, or new products. It's about the dollar.

    Unfortunately, the same could be said about serving the government in such a system as Phrost and Heinlein dictate. There would be people who serve, not to better society, but to enable their own goals, be it the right to procreate, or to vote. And then again, the benefit to society that the service provided would be just a pleasant side effect, like the jobs created in a new McDonalds.

    Respectfully,
    Ray Nelson

    For example, has no heard of rent-seeking? I think it's kind of hilarious that any conservative could throw out their whole theoretical foundation on this one question.

    And what if someone simply can't afford to take two years off for this selfless service? Now it becomes a job corps for the idly rich.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  5. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

    Community Corrections Officer

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    3,621

    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 11:50am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm of the opinion that simply being shat out of your mother's **** on American soil should not by itself grant you carte blanche to cast ballots that affect your neighbor's life.
    I believe the idea is that everyone should get to control their own destiny. Getting to choose your leaders is an important part of that.
  6. afronaut is offline
    afronaut's Avatar

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    northeast US
    Posts
    1,421

    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 12:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm of the opinion that simply being shat out of your mother's **** on American soil should not by itself grant you carte blanche to cast ballots that affect your neighbor's life.
    You may not like the idea that your neighbor can effect your life against your will, but even in this silly, 13 year old boy sci fi novel democracy, that would still happen. If you have beef with your idiot neighbors voting to raise your taxes, under the "Starship Troopers democratic system" (yeeesh) your idiot fellow voter will be some guy who was in the Army with you or file papers for the U.S. Department of Energy.

    There will always be people who's votes you don't like and any system that tries to weed them out, however philosophically pure or well-intentioned, is suicide.
    I dork harder than any of you can imagine.

    - Hedgehoney
  7. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sunny Hawaii
    Posts
    4,972

    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 1:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS
    Phrost,

    This kind of social service as alternative to serving in the military is done in some countries, especially in those with mandatory military service (for the "conscientious objectors"). What amazes me is a libertarian like you seems to be in general can be so socialist about this.
    I tend to believe Phrost masquerades as a "libertarian" so he can espouse socialistic ideals. I've never heard of a libertarian advocating law thereby forcing individuals into mandatory service to the government.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  8. afronaut is offline
    afronaut's Avatar

    Middleweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    northeast US
    Posts
    1,421

    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 1:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, even though I dislike Phrost's idea and its underpinnings, it service would not be mandatory. Only if you wanted certain privileges in his society.
    I dork harder than any of you can imagine.

    - Hedgehoney
  9. Ian G.R. is offline

    Sociocidal sociocider

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Legoland
    Posts
    759

    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 2:04pm


     Style: Currently a SAMBO newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would say phrost has developed his idea since presenting it on page 2 or 3 or whatever page it was...

    The idea you would have to do government service (any not just military, but ye, under a militaristic diciplanary system) before attaining citizenship.

    If you held it to it's originial premise (military service is required, or at least some service with martial application) would either lead to militaristic expansion or a beaucratic nightmare beyond that of the iron curtain, or both.
    So, whne there is nothing left to conquer, then what? Civil war?
    Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil. - Machiavelli
  10. Ray Nelson is offline
    Ray Nelson's Avatar

    Learn to become Invisible

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SW Michigan
    Posts
    112

    Posted On:
    12/03/2004 2:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Mandatory service is not what he had in mind, in that people have the right to choose whether or not they serve. It's a way of 'paying' for the rights and priviledges that are freely given to people. The idea is that people, having had to work for those liberties and rights, would give more weight to them, and take them more seriously. Voter turnout (Among registered and legal voters) would skyrocket, and since the 'service' need not necessarily be martial, it wouldn't immediately become a war machine.

    Is it right? Who knows? There has yet to be found a form of government that does not grow fat and corrupt. I just think that America has the best system to date. It's not without it's flaws, but it is still above and beyond most other ideals.

    But then again, that's just my opinion, and subject to change.
    Respectfully,
    Ray Nelson

    Oh, and 'when there is nothing left to conquer', we'll always have space to explore and plunder.
Page 11 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 12131415 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.